Same here. I still think it could be amazing, provided they get the infrastructure and sensitive historical issues done right.
And by right, I mean work with all — get plaques, monuments, murals, displays along with parking, exits, street widening, opening of Franklin corridor, etc.
Not gonna be easy, lots of hiccups may occur, but seems a no brainer compared to whats there now.
People who are tired af everything being built with acres of ugly aspahalt around to accomodate cars only. Nobaody ever walks to a game at the diamond.
The games at the diamond are only fun because of the team’s enthusiam. Other than what happens inside the ballpark, the baseball-fan experience at that location is the same as driving to any big box store in exurbia. It is not a city/urban experience with a lot of other activities. It sure could be if it was downtown. If this downtown thing happens, you’ll see.
On line polls are fun but not scientific as I’m sure everyone knows. Maybe Style or CHPN would like to mount a random sample poll to see what the real story is.
Baseball in the Bottom is really against what Richmond is doing: new Redskins Park backing up on the Diamond along with the Ashe center. What an opportunity to make a real statement.
Has anyone been to the ballpark in Memphis? A commercial wasteland.
Baseball in the Bottom would have been an interesting idea 30-40 years ago, but the Bottom is too congested with residents now with no parking for the majority of patrons of the restaurants and many tenants. Something needs to be done to utilize the area better.
Rebuild at the Diamond and create a Sports District along the Boulevard to Leigh St. There’s a lot of untapped potential there with the Ashe Center, the Sports Backer’s Stadium, and the Redskins training camp. Bowtie Cinema, Fat Dragon, Buzz and Ned’s, Kitchen 64 are all close by. It’s a gateway into Richmond and the Museum District. Plus, the traffic flow is much better for folks from outside the city proper. Let’s see if the Council can be creative.
Better Alternative: Multimodal transportation center that includes bike program/infrastructure, GRTC bus transfer station (main stop on city circulator), MegaBus, maybe future light rail, easy walk to canal taxis, shuttles to airport and Staples Mill Amtrak station, well connected to high speed at Main Street Station.
Scott – let’s be honest about things. The ballpark proposal has nothing to do with the city dropping the ball on creating a true multi-modal center at Main Street Station (I thought that was the point of the millions being spent on restoring MSS). GRTC supports the location as do many residents. The City killed the idea presumably to have their hair-brained bazaar in the train shed. You know, the incubator/restaurant/retail/visitors center/office space/whatever we think of next to put in there space.
Truth is, there is ample underutilized space in Shockoe Bottom to accommodate a ballpark, multimodal transit center, and museum/education facilities teaching about and respecting Richmond’s role in the slavery.
Why not put a free public parking deck in the Bottom so business that open there actually have a chance at surviving…renovate and keep the Diamond where it is and put a parking deck instead of having lots…and redo the coliseum so we can have bigger performers come.
Truth- yet what is being pushed as the priority?- a corporate welfare ballpark that the public does not want instead of the transportation center that Richmond needs. The truth is obvious.
I think any longstanding success of baseball in Richmond is predicated by its fans and their enthusiasm-and that is just too difficult to do with low quality/caliber baseball. In cities like St. Louis and Chicago, nearly no one can remain immune to the mania surrounding their teams and their records. But here, we are unlikely to ever experience such enthusiasm, even for a winning Squirrels team. If they win the single-A farm league Championship–who cares?
Instead, if the city really wants to utilize the Franklin Street corridor and the 17th Street market area effectively, they should consider a shopping experience that will draw in outsiders and yet serve a true purpose for city-dwellers. The important thing is to it right. What could Shockoe be like with a quaint shopping area that mixes familiar national retailers like GAP or Steve Madden shoes with local merchants who sell their own wares? What if this shopping area was anchored by a large draw like a Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods? Imagine how much traffic this would generate from nearby boroughs like the Fan, the Museum District, Northside, and Manchester.
And let’s not forget Church Hill. Imagine how much better daily living could be. And how much our property values would increase.
So many bad ideas on here… There’s a reason the developers do this for a living and the rest of us don’t. The number of people interested in these half baked alternatives would be an even smaller fraction and they’d still suffer the same issues that the NIMBY crowd has been throwing out.
Give it a rest or get a group together and try to sell the idea. Maybe then you’ll realize how few folks are holding their breath for a multi-modal transportation hub or a boutique shopping center in downtown (imagine the Xmas rush traffic!).
I think what is being realized is just how few people are holding their breath for a corporate welfare baseball stadium.
What’s even sadder/funnier is people calling for more parking in Shockoe Bottom. Just how many parking garages will be built before people realize the waste and futility of trying to accommodate so many cars INSTEAD of changing travel behavior and combining new and old non-car transportation infrastructure with a multi-modal transportation center. I think the fumes from all the highway overpasses over the Bottom are really starting to effect collective intelligence.
Alex, are you a NIMBY since you oppose a stadium in Shockoe and always bitch about the Johannes monstrosity on Broad?
I mean, you live real close to both these things, right? Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you once say your home overlooks the Johannes building which means the new stadium in the Bottom would be basically right in your backyard?
@16 – I oppose the Johannas building because of the connection that the architect has to the approving committee and what I feel is unethical (though legal under Richmond rules) behavior. I also really dislike that CAR can’t spell out consistent standards so it turns into a bullshit who do you know thing. Even when they do have standards they’re not worth the paper they are printed on. Basically, yes I think the design sucks but that’s an opinion and if CAR had clear standards I wouldn’t have any problem with it.
If you think I’ve been anti-stadium, you haven’t been paying attention.
@15 – 45% of the population to be exact. How many have indicated support for a “multi-modal transportation hub.” My guess is nowhere near that many. I agree with you in principle that it would be great for us to move to a more sustainable model here. Having walkable entertainment would help deliver some of that though would it not?
Actually Scott, what’s being pushed instead of GRTC at Main Street Station is a cockamamie DECD concoction that has ‘dud’ written all over it (even though publicly, the City will tell us that they killed the MSS project because the Shockoe Bottom neighborhood didn’t want “those people” in the neighborhood).
The ballpark initiative is a separate issue to multi-modal because it isn’t an either or scenario. It could be both, and a slave trade project as well.
On the issue of parking, it is true that there is PLENTY of parking nearby to serve Shockoe Bottom. However, the problem is that much of it is not made available to the public. The elephant in the room is the Commonwealth of Va parking deck at 14th and Main that we all helped pay for but is not available to the public for parking on evenings and weekends.
The Johannes monstrosity is in your backyard….you oppose it……you complain about how you have to look at it all the time from your home………. but you’re not a NIMBY because you have a damn good reasons to oppose it other than it being in your backyard.
@21 – it’s probably a little too nuanced for someone who can’t even figure out what side of the stadium issue someone is on. Don’t strain your head too much on it…
Not that I have any problem being a NIMBY on some issues. I think all of us probably have our line somewhere. If this were Sam Moore opening a new strip club, I doubt we’d find many folks who weren’t NIMBYs for example.
Besides increased traffic to Shockoe (which I think is the point), what is honestly bad about bringing a desirable small boutique shopping area? Something between Short Pump (you know you go there) and Carytown could be a draw that actually brings new people to the city and services the locals already here.
As for the dismissal of this as just another “bad idea” that couldn’t garner support, I remind you of a little discussion about the need for an improved Chimborazo Playground. More than a year later and hundreds of Facebook followers later, there is progress.
@20 Truth, thanks for noting the parking issues. You are absolutely correct, the state will not let their parking decks be used by the public. It’s a risk management issue for them. Their insurance covers their employees in the decks, not the general public.
Today I drove down Main Street and looked at the surface parking across from the train station; it’s no where near enough to handle a stadium crowd. But then, the Diamond already has a parking lot that’s big enough (and well lit) and I happen to think that if a new stadium is built (with anything other than taxpayer money), then it should be built where the current one is, anyway. Close to the Ashe Center, close to the Redskins park. Who was it here who said that area is already a sports area? I agree.
I’m firmly against a stadium in the bottom; don’t believe it will bring retail (look at other stadiums – start with Denver – I think there was a recent article in Style, maybe Backpage, about the impact of stadiums, and I’ve read others), it won’t ‘clean up the area’ as someone told me they believed. It also won’t draw what the Diamond does because people believe the Bottom is dangerous, (whether it’s true or not), parking would be a nightmare, and the access is not anywhere near as easy as the Blvd. Someone from the counties won’t even try to get there, they just won’t come. Heck, I work with someone who likes David Sedaris but won’t come to hear him at the Landmark because he does ‘not come into the city after dark.’ Imagine telling that guy to come to the Bottom for a ball game!!!
The area of the Boulevard where the Diamond is now is where I think a new one should go, but I don’t want the city to fork out a bundle for it. I think the counties should help out, but I see no sign of that happening in the current environment.
#21, I detest the Johannes building on Broad, too, but I think your attack on Alex is uncalled for unless you’ve got a personal beef with him. I have no clue who he is and I really don’t like personal attacks on this site (or any other).
William’s article raises some fair points. I’m pro-Shockoe as far as sites go but there’s still a lot of valid questions to be asked about whether we want to build a stadium without the counties and what the financing model is here.
It would be great if we could have separate discussions about some of the other issues before we even start getting into site discussions as a lot of the Shockoe objections actually seem to be financing or general ballpark objections. Nothing makes for a sloppier, less productive dialogue than people not being clear on what their real concerns are.
In this case there’s probably at least five or six schools of thought being crammed into two positions (Shockoe / Diamond).
I actually admire you for admitting you are a NIMBY on certain things. Everyone is a NIMBY in some form or fashion, including those who use the term in a pejorative way.
@27 – we’re all NIMBYs given the right provocation. I just find this to be a ridiculous provocation and think the complainers here would be well served to save their ammo for another day / show some respect for a long-time supporter of the community.
Addressing the parking issue again, it is a problem that won’t get better with all of the apartments being built and street parking becomes difficult for tenants, their visitors, and patrons of existing businesses. Cars get towed often and current lots are privately owned. Many of the apartment dwellers are two people to a unit, which translates to 2 cars per unit, and their visitors who must find a place to park.
For folks who don’t live in the area, many have a difficult time finding a place to park when they want to patronize the restaurants/bars. For those of us who enjoy walking it’s not a problem, but it is one for many other people. Parking is an issue that needs to be seriously addressed if you want the current businesses to thrive and grow. i don’t object to what’s been going on, with the exception of the stadium being built there, but the city planners and developers need to get a grip on providing parking to meet the needs of a growing area.
36 comments
Ashley Tucker liked this on Facebook.
Amy George liked this on Facebook.
Who the heck thought it a good idea in the first place,
Almost half of the people who voted. And people who love Richmond.
Same here. I still think it could be amazing, provided they get the infrastructure and sensitive historical issues done right.
And by right, I mean work with all — get plaques, monuments, murals, displays along with parking, exits, street widening, opening of Franklin corridor, etc.
Not gonna be easy, lots of hiccups may occur, but seems a no brainer compared to whats there now.
People who are tired af everything being built with acres of ugly aspahalt around to accomodate cars only. Nobaody ever walks to a game at the diamond.
Brandi Watkins liked this on Facebook.
Kathy Albers liked this on Facebook.
The games at the diamond are only fun because of the team’s enthusiam. Other than what happens inside the ballpark, the baseball-fan experience at that location is the same as driving to any big box store in exurbia. It is not a city/urban experience with a lot of other activities. It sure could be if it was downtown. If this downtown thing happens, you’ll see.
Emily Nelson liked this on Facebook.
On line polls are fun but not scientific as I’m sure everyone knows. Maybe Style or CHPN would like to mount a random sample poll to see what the real story is.
Baseball in the Bottom is really against what Richmond is doing: new Redskins Park backing up on the Diamond along with the Ashe center. What an opportunity to make a real statement.
Has anyone been to the ballpark in Memphis? A commercial wasteland.
Stacie Wheeler liked this on Facebook.
Baseball in the Bottom would have been an interesting idea 30-40 years ago, but the Bottom is too congested with residents now with no parking for the majority of patrons of the restaurants and many tenants. Something needs to be done to utilize the area better.
Rebuild at the Diamond and create a Sports District along the Boulevard to Leigh St. There’s a lot of untapped potential there with the Ashe Center, the Sports Backer’s Stadium, and the Redskins training camp. Bowtie Cinema, Fat Dragon, Buzz and Ned’s, Kitchen 64 are all close by. It’s a gateway into Richmond and the Museum District. Plus, the traffic flow is much better for folks from outside the city proper. Let’s see if the Council can be creative.
Better Alternative:
Multimodal transportation center that includes bike program/infrastructure, GRTC bus transfer station (main stop on city circulator), MegaBus, maybe future light rail, easy walk to canal taxis, shuttles to airport and Staples Mill Amtrak station, well connected to high speed at Main Street Station.
Joe,
I live in the Fan and I do walk to games at the Diamond.
Scott – let’s be honest about things. The ballpark proposal has nothing to do with the city dropping the ball on creating a true multi-modal center at Main Street Station (I thought that was the point of the millions being spent on restoring MSS). GRTC supports the location as do many residents. The City killed the idea presumably to have their hair-brained bazaar in the train shed. You know, the incubator/restaurant/retail/visitors center/office space/whatever we think of next to put in there space.
Truth is, there is ample underutilized space in Shockoe Bottom to accommodate a ballpark, multimodal transit center, and museum/education facilities teaching about and respecting Richmond’s role in the slavery.
Why not put a free public parking deck in the Bottom so business that open there actually have a chance at surviving…renovate and keep the Diamond where it is and put a parking deck instead of having lots…and redo the coliseum so we can have bigger performers come.
Truth- yet what is being pushed as the priority?- a corporate welfare ballpark that the public does not want instead of the transportation center that Richmond needs. The truth is obvious.
I think any longstanding success of baseball in Richmond is predicated by its fans and their enthusiasm-and that is just too difficult to do with low quality/caliber baseball. In cities like St. Louis and Chicago, nearly no one can remain immune to the mania surrounding their teams and their records. But here, we are unlikely to ever experience such enthusiasm, even for a winning Squirrels team. If they win the single-A farm league Championship–who cares?
Instead, if the city really wants to utilize the Franklin Street corridor and the 17th Street market area effectively, they should consider a shopping experience that will draw in outsiders and yet serve a true purpose for city-dwellers. The important thing is to it right. What could Shockoe be like with a quaint shopping area that mixes familiar national retailers like GAP or Steve Madden shoes with local merchants who sell their own wares? What if this shopping area was anchored by a large draw like a Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods? Imagine how much traffic this would generate from nearby boroughs like the Fan, the Museum District, Northside, and Manchester.
And let’s not forget Church Hill. Imagine how much better daily living could be. And how much our property values would increase.
Christina Sadowski liked this on Facebook.
So many bad ideas on here… There’s a reason the developers do this for a living and the rest of us don’t. The number of people interested in these half baked alternatives would be an even smaller fraction and they’d still suffer the same issues that the NIMBY crowd has been throwing out.
Give it a rest or get a group together and try to sell the idea. Maybe then you’ll realize how few folks are holding their breath for a multi-modal transportation hub or a boutique shopping center in downtown (imagine the Xmas rush traffic!).
I think what is being realized is just how few people are holding their breath for a corporate welfare baseball stadium.
What’s even sadder/funnier is people calling for more parking in Shockoe Bottom. Just how many parking garages will be built before people realize the waste and futility of trying to accommodate so many cars INSTEAD of changing travel behavior and combining new and old non-car transportation infrastructure with a multi-modal transportation center. I think the fumes from all the highway overpasses over the Bottom are really starting to effect collective intelligence.
Alex, are you a NIMBY since you oppose a stadium in Shockoe and always bitch about the Johannes monstrosity on Broad?
I mean, you live real close to both these things, right? Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you once say your home overlooks the Johannes building which means the new
stadium in the Bottom would be basically right in your backyard?
@16 – I oppose the Johannas building because of the connection that the architect has to the approving committee and what I feel is unethical (though legal under Richmond rules) behavior. I also really dislike that CAR can’t spell out consistent standards so it turns into a bullshit who do you know thing. Even when they do have standards they’re not worth the paper they are printed on. Basically, yes I think the design sucks but that’s an opinion and if CAR had clear standards I wouldn’t have any problem with it.
If you think I’ve been anti-stadium, you haven’t been paying attention.
@15 – 45% of the population to be exact. How many have indicated support for a “multi-modal transportation hub.” My guess is nowhere near that many. I agree with you in principle that it would be great for us to move to a more sustainable model here. Having walkable entertainment would help deliver some of that though would it not?
Actually Scott, what’s being pushed instead of GRTC at Main Street Station is a cockamamie DECD concoction that has ‘dud’ written all over it (even though publicly, the City will tell us that they killed the MSS project because the Shockoe Bottom neighborhood didn’t want “those people” in the neighborhood).
The ballpark initiative is a separate issue to multi-modal because it isn’t an either or scenario. It could be both, and a slave trade project as well.
On the issue of parking, it is true that there is PLENTY of parking nearby to serve Shockoe Bottom. However, the problem is that much of it is not made available to the public. The elephant in the room is the Commonwealth of Va parking deck at 14th and Main that we all helped pay for but is not available to the public for parking on evenings and weekends.
Thanks, Alex, I think I get it.
The Johannes monstrosity is in your backyard….you oppose it……you complain about how you have to look at it all the time from your home………. but you’re not a NIMBY because you have a damn good reasons to oppose it other than it being in your backyard.
Yup, I think I get it (eyes rolling) …………..
@21 – it’s probably a little too nuanced for someone who can’t even figure out what side of the stadium issue someone is on. Don’t strain your head too much on it…
Not that I have any problem being a NIMBY on some issues. I think all of us probably have our line somewhere. If this were Sam Moore opening a new strip club, I doubt we’d find many folks who weren’t NIMBYs for example.
Besides increased traffic to Shockoe (which I think is the point), what is honestly bad about bringing a desirable small boutique shopping area? Something between Short Pump (you know you go there) and Carytown could be a draw that actually brings new people to the city and services the locals already here.
As for the dismissal of this as just another “bad idea” that couldn’t garner support, I remind you of a little discussion about the need for an improved Chimborazo Playground. More than a year later and hundreds of Facebook followers later, there is progress.
@20 Truth, thanks for noting the parking issues. You are absolutely correct, the state will not let their parking decks be used by the public. It’s a risk management issue for them. Their insurance covers their employees in the decks, not the general public.
Today I drove down Main Street and looked at the surface parking across from the train station; it’s no where near enough to handle a stadium crowd. But then, the Diamond already has a parking lot that’s big enough (and well lit) and I happen to think that if a new stadium is built (with anything other than taxpayer money), then it should be built where the current one is, anyway. Close to the Ashe Center, close to the Redskins park. Who was it here who said that area is already a sports area? I agree.
I’m firmly against a stadium in the bottom; don’t believe it will bring retail (look at other stadiums – start with Denver – I think there was a recent article in Style, maybe Backpage, about the impact of stadiums, and I’ve read others), it won’t ‘clean up the area’ as someone told me they believed. It also won’t draw what the Diamond does because people believe the Bottom is dangerous, (whether it’s true or not), parking would be a nightmare, and the access is not anywhere near as easy as the Blvd. Someone from the counties won’t even try to get there, they just won’t come. Heck, I work with someone who likes David Sedaris but won’t come to hear him at the Landmark because he does ‘not come into the city after dark.’ Imagine telling that guy to come to the Bottom for a ball game!!!
The area of the Boulevard where the Diamond is now is where I think a new one should go, but I don’t want the city to fork out a bundle for it. I think the counties should help out, but I see no sign of that happening in the current environment.
#21, I detest the Johannes building on Broad, too, but I think your attack on Alex is uncalled for unless you’ve got a personal beef with him. I have no clue who he is and I really don’t like personal attacks on this site (or any other).
Michael Paul Williams has a good column about this –
http://www.timesdispatch.com/local/columnists-blogs/michael-paul-williams/williams-on-ballpark-city-and-county-voters-should-be-heard/article_3ecf2861-9a2b-55f7-bd12-a15ed535c538.html
William’s article raises some fair points. I’m pro-Shockoe as far as sites go but there’s still a lot of valid questions to be asked about whether we want to build a stadium without the counties and what the financing model is here.
It would be great if we could have separate discussions about some of the other issues before we even start getting into site discussions as a lot of the Shockoe objections actually seem to be financing or general ballpark objections. Nothing makes for a sloppier, less productive dialogue than people not being clear on what their real concerns are.
In this case there’s probably at least five or six schools of thought being crammed into two positions (Shockoe / Diamond).
My apologies, Alex, my fellow NIMBY.
I actually admire you for admitting you are a NIMBY on certain things. Everyone is a NIMBY in some form or fashion, including those who use the term in a pejorative way.
@27 – we’re all NIMBYs given the right provocation. I just find this to be a ridiculous provocation and think the complainers here would be well served to save their ammo for another day / show some respect for a long-time supporter of the community.
Addressing the parking issue again, it is a problem that won’t get better with all of the apartments being built and street parking becomes difficult for tenants, their visitors, and patrons of existing businesses. Cars get towed often and current lots are privately owned. Many of the apartment dwellers are two people to a unit, which translates to 2 cars per unit, and their visitors who must find a place to park.
For folks who don’t live in the area, many have a difficult time finding a place to park when they want to patronize the restaurants/bars. For those of us who enjoy walking it’s not a problem, but it is one for many other people. Parking is an issue that needs to be seriously addressed if you want the current businesses to thrive and grow. i don’t object to what’s been going on, with the exception of the stadium being built there, but the city planners and developers need to get a grip on providing parking to meet the needs of a growing area.