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With stadium off the table, Mayor Jones pushing to memorialize Lumpkin’s Jail

Graham Moomaw has the details on Mayor Jones’ announcement of a renewed push to memorialize the Lumpkin’s Jail site in Shockoe Bottom:

“We’re going to basically have a citywide conversation on the site’s future,” Jones said in an interview Wednesday.

[…]

“We have an idea about the pavilion and what it could look like. We know the Lumpkin’s Jail site, we know what that’s all about,” Jones said. “It can’t go too far from that, but we do want public input, and we want to have their feelings about how the history should be approached.”

The city’s Twitter account sets the first (“of many”) community meetings at Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School on September 10.

Ana Edwards and Phil Wilayto, opponents of the Mayor’s earlier proposals for the area, are hosting a community meeting this coming Saturday towards ratification of community-developed “Alternative Plan” for Shockoe Bottom.

IMAGE ABOVE from proposed Lumpkin’s Jail Memorial in 2013

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Belinda Viers
Belinda Viers
5 years ago

Belinda Viers liked this on Facebook.

Dashawna Wright
Dashawna Wright
5 years ago

Dashawna Wright liked this on Facebook.

Erin Jenkins
Erin Jenkins
5 years ago

Erin Jenkins liked this on Facebook.

Paul Granger
Paul Granger
5 years ago

Paul Granger liked this on Facebook.

Eric Huffstutler
Eric Huffstutler
5 years ago

I would be interested to know what kind of revenue this will bring to the Shockoe-Church Hill area? I doubt one little museum will bring in the dollars as the stadium and all of the associated outlying projects (high-rise hotel, mega grocery store, shopping, etc..) would have?

Kathy Albers
Kathy Albers
5 years ago

Kathy Albers liked this on Facebook.

Emily Klinedinst
Emily Klinedinst
5 years ago

I’m confused. Is this good or bad?

resident
resident
5 years ago

sports stadiums usually cost the public far more than money generated. also it’s not always about revenue, if it were only about revenue then there would still be slavery. a museum is very important so that people can learn, know and not repeat that sad moment in history.

Aud
Aud
5 years ago

Lots of community conversations heading our way. This is good.

resident
resident
5 years ago

why can’t we have the museum with the associated development? are these fans going to spend the night at a hotel to watch the squirrels? doubt it. grocery shop before or after the game? doubt it. this stuff is sustainable without the stadium.

Libby McDaniel
Libby McDaniel
5 years ago

Libby McDaniel liked this on Facebook.

Junnie Jones
Junnie Jones
5 years ago

Junnie Jones liked this on Facebook.

Eric Huffstutler
Eric Huffstutler
5 years ago

The plan would have generated almost $200 million in net new revenue over the next 20 years. Mayor Jones said: “That’s money we can invest in public schools, transportation, public safety, and all of the attributes of a Tier One city.” The Shokoe option would have brought in double revnue over that of the Boulevard and, the museum would have also been built. The outlying buildings would have only been to “develop” this area and bring it into the 21st century and on into the next. I feel as though this was a missed opportunity that will never come our… Read more »

crd
crd
5 years ago

A friend of mine said recently “there’s a reason Twelve Years a Slave” made so much money as a movie. There’s interest in slave museums, believe it or not. There’s one going up in D.C. (I can’t remember the exact title, it may be civil rights or black history), and two more that I’m aware of – can’t remember where but both in the deep south (Memphis and New Orleans or Baton Rouge?). Hook this into the Holocaust Museum, combined with other Richmond museums (including the Valentine) and you have interest. Just sayin’.

resident
resident
5 years ago

everything the mayor say cannot be taken as truth. sure the confederate flag is a part of our history. it was also an enemy of the u.s. let’s fly a german, russian or any of the other countries we have warred against above our capitol. that makes common sense obviously. look what happened with the redskin’s deal. we built a facility and now pay a billionaire more than a quarter million dollers to stay. wtf? does a non selling out , b rated team with $10 tickets warrant a publicly funded multi million dollar stadium? they never sell out. nobody… Read more »

resident
resident
5 years ago

who said lock the confederate flag in a closet? you not me. put it in a museum. fly it personally. it’s ok. i get it. i don’t disrespect it and want it to disappear. there is a lot it stood for that i do like, but not all. states rights, sure. their stance on human rights, #$%& no!

resident
resident
5 years ago

can i bulldoze your family’s grave? then tailgate with a small crowd, pee on the grave, spit and litter? where is there grave site? i will invite some friends. i will not charge for a ticket and will not use taxpayer money. you can join us if you like.

resident
resident
5 years ago

if its for revenue, i’d prefer a mall and theater than the stadium. that much space should be available daily, not just isolated events. i am sure something positive for history and commerce can be achieved. we do not need to jump on the first thing the mayor throws out there. we have something unique that can be used for education, history and revenue. not may places have this. there are tens of thousands of bodies here. brits, native americans, colonists, slaves and more. we can capitalize on the sacred and enchanted area in a great way. oh yeah, french,… Read more »

laura
laura
5 years ago

@6- well stated Eric. It was a huge mistake to not seize the opportunity to undertake a comprehensive large-scale development for that area. I fear that any development that now happens will be piecemeal and not serve as as economic generator to help redevelop the rest of the Bottom and provide much needed services to Union Hill, Downtown, and Church Hill. In 10 years, it may very well look exactly the same as it stands today–a shabby wasteland. Dealing with the flooding issues is economically not feasible without large scale development and city funds…this will prevent this area from moving… Read more »

Katmando
Katmando
5 years ago

I agree with Resident. Take for example, the new arena to be built for the Milwaukee Bucks. Tax payers are putting up $250 million which will take 36 years to recover.

Long before then, of course, a new stadium would have been built and the tax payers wind up on the short end of the stick – again!

Aud
Aud
5 years ago

@Laura “I fear that any development that now happens will be piecemeal and not serve as as economic generator to help redevelop the rest of the Bottom and provide much needed services to Union Hill, Downtown, and Church Hill. In 10 years, it may very well look exactly the same as it stands today–a shabby wasteland.” As it stands today? :-/

Tyler Brown
Tyler Brown
5 years ago

A guy I work with was on a development committee for the baseball stadium project. He said that part of the rationale for the stadium was that building it would allow the city to also construct larger evacuation routes for the Bottom. Since Shockoe Bottom is in a flood plain, greater development of the Bottom can’t happen until the evacuation route is in place. Has anyone heard the same?

Terry Peters
Terry Peters
5 years ago

Nothing of substance can happen down there until the infrastructure is upgraded. Keep squabbling like this and it’ll stay just exactly as it is.

Alex
Alex
5 years ago

@7 – 12 years made $56MM at the box office. That’s generally not considered a smashing success by today’s standards, especially for a critically acclaimed film.

@8-11 – you make some good points but it seems like you’re scattered towards the end. If it’s disrespectful to build a stadium, why would you be ok with a mall? That makes no sense.

Rebecca Wooden Flowers
Rebecca Wooden Flowers
5 years ago

it’s a ploy for him to save face. There is already a team of community members working on a proposal for what we’d like to see done in Shockoe Bottom. There is a public meeting tomorrow where we’ll be presenting the proposal. Please check it out and come if you can and want to give input for what you’d wanna see down there https://www.facebook.com/events/1472488526395234/

Jamie Seigel
Jamie Seigel
5 years ago

@14. Is there a point you were trying to make with Laura’s comment? I tend to agree with her earlier comment. Do you see something other than a wasteland in this area of Shockoe?

WarGibFA
WarGibFA
5 years ago

Care for the living should trump care for the dead. Lumpkin’s jail should be memorialized, but if it’s just one time museum, sitting in a middle of what is currently a wasteland, who is going to visit it?

It is very sad that the stadium-associated Kroger/hotel plans (also, wasn’t there something about a parking garage?) fell through, as they would have greatly increased the desirability of the neighborhood.

Emily Klinedinst
Emily Klinedinst
5 years ago

Is that God-awful thing in the photo in the original post going to be the real thing?

Sara Zoumbaris
Sara Zoumbaris
5 years ago

Sara Zoumbaris liked this on Facebook.

Jessie Cheyenne Barford
Jessie Cheyenne Barford
5 years ago

Jessie Cheyenne Barford liked this on Facebook.

Christian Briggs
Christian Briggs
5 years ago

Christian Briggs liked this on Facebook.

BAF
BAF
5 years ago

More conversations…more charettes….more committees….great ways to kick the can farther down the road to try and reconcile what are likely to be irreconcilable differences. The Mayor needs to get with Council and hammer out a plan for development that can get the support of 7 members of council–just going for 5 is not enough for something like this, politically speaking. Once they do, then let’s get it done. We have had more than enough conversations about this concept. It is now time for a new plan and a new vision that requires the Mayor to do the legwork with Council… Read more »

Eric Huffstutler
Eric Huffstutler
5 years ago

True, now that the ball stadium is history, there needs to be some other revenue generating plan for the area. A memorial park? I don’t think so. Another piece of flat land that will only generate vagrants. It needs to be built out and UP. Buildings of substance and no, not yet another condo or dorm building as we are overrun by them now. I too believe in 10 years the area will look the same. It has been 11 years since the demolished Thalhimers with plans for a cultural center to be built. What is it today, just more… Read more »

laura
laura
5 years ago

@15. That area of Shockoe Bottom is currently in a flood plain. No development can take place until that problem is eradicated by significant (and costly) infrastructure improvements. So, your source is partially correct. Let’s say, for example, a Kroger wanted to build a large format store behind the Exxon station. The typical cost for an average Kroger store is $13-18 million to buy the land and build a store. A store like Kroger would likely jump at the chance to build in an area like Shockoe with increasingly strong demographics. However, the cost to prepare the site–$100 million for… Read more »

East Grace
East Grace
5 years ago

Short-sighted whiners? The stadium deal had many, many problems. I wish there had been a few more short-sighted whiners when the Redskins deal was being made.

bozatwork
bozatwork
5 years ago

Tier 1 city? Please. I love Richmond but the downtown master plan is to bring it to par with Tier 2 peers. We have lightyears to go to get even that far.

laura
laura
5 years ago

@25… Your attitude is the reason why Richmond is about 30 years behind the development curve. Unfortunately, there many that maintain the same attitude. I’ll bet you’ll find many many problems with all of the support Bon Secours has provided for the East End neighborhood you live in too? Sometimes you must give in order to receive…

Diane Carwile P'Pool
Diane Carwile P'Pool
5 years ago

Diane Carwile P’Pool liked this on Facebook.

Eric S. Huffstutler
Eric S. Huffstutler
5 years ago

I know this is a bit different but after the Gaston floods, wasn’t there some work done in the Bottom concerning drainage? I suspect that the big picture of the stadium, Kroger, hotel, shopping, etc… would have all contributed to the improvement of the infrastructure. laura, I said this once before and got blasted but I will say it again because it rings true. It is an old saying… “The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions”. But at the same time, we are up against a bunch of conservatives who doesn’t like change. I don’t like change in… Read more »

Eric S. Huffstutler
Eric S. Huffstutler
5 years ago

bozatwork… I think the vision was to head that direction with a huge in-your-face multi development that would also stimulate growth downtown. Currently downtown Richmond closes at 5:00 and there needs to be activities, restaurants, businesses, etc… that are sorely missing. Not just a couple of brewpubs.

crd
crd
5 years ago

@25 and @26, I could not agree more, thanks for comments. Plus the recent road work down there, costing I don’t know how many millions, has now hosed up traffic there.

crd
crd
5 years ago

Try reading this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/monticellos-whitewashed-version-of-history/2015/08/14/8e8329aa-4043-11e5-9561-4b3dc93e3b9a_story.html?hpid=z3

and wonder why we should not have some sort of museum there. @17, so 56 million isn’t to be sneezed at, but my point is more about the essential content, not totally about the money though that is part of it. The Smithsonian is supposed to open an African American space, supposedly next year, that also includes slave history. They have been developing it for a decade.

East Grace
East Grace
5 years ago

@27 – you really should not make assumptions about people you know nothing about. I think what Bon Secours is doing in the East End is great and I am very supportive of their endeavors. I think responsible development is essential to the the life of any city. The footprint left by any kind of development can have many consequences down the road and if we do not look at things from both inside and outside the box we are doomed to live in concrete jungles. Putting aside the history of the Bottom, there were many unanswered questions and problems… Read more »

mary anne
mary anne
5 years ago

crd & resident, based on your post I think that you could contribute alot to the Alternative Development Plan & really hope you’ll be at the meeting that starts in 30 minutes. Maybe you could share what you learn at the meeting( I wont be able to make it to this one). Everyone posting here should attend and offer their suggestions for funding the Alternative Plan. W/The Nat’l Historic Trust on board I’m voting for an LDS Church satellite site for African American genealogical research where people can research their family histories or attempt to. Maybe that sounds far fetched… Read more »

mary anne
mary anne
5 years ago
crd
crd
5 years ago

@33 I couldn’t make it but expect to hear about it, either from John Murden or another friend who usually attends their meetings. UNESCO site would be wonderful, and I had not thought about the LDS Church and their genealogy but it’s a great idea, too. Have seen media about their work. There is a new African American portion of the Smithsonian that was scheduled to open this year and apparently is now next year, but in the articles I’ve seen about it, they will have traveling exhibits.

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