There are reports of a fatal shooting at the Chimbo Market at around 7PM tonight.
If confirmed, this would be the fourth in the East End and the 19th in the city in 2011.
I heard about it from someone I saw shortly after 7 p.m., he said there was a body down and police everywhere, and also that it was near Chimbo. Shame,I had hopes for the murder rate in the east end to stay low.
Total shame, my husband and I live on 32nd and Clay… we like to think we’re sort of “removed” from this type of thing but of course we know it’s always a possibility. We have frequented Chimbo market before for emergency type kitchen items and have always been treated very nice… it’s too bad for that street, some of the houses have a lot of potential but unfortunately this will leave a terrible taste for quite some time. Probably a 5 year set back at best.
I believe they even have a cop there in the store in the evening hours. I guess my days of shopping there are over.
From CBS Affiliate WTVR 6
8:30 p.m. EDT, August 14, 2011
Police have confirmed that a man was shot in front of the Chimborazo Market in the 500 block of Chimborazo Blvd., in the city’s East End.
The victim was shot at 6:46 p.m., police said and was pronounced dead on arrival. He died from a single shot.
At the scene CBS6 spoke with the victim’s dad and cousin, who reported that the victim is a 25-year-old man. The victim is the father of two young children and is from Chesterfield, although the family said he grew up in the Chimborazo neighborhood.
Police are reviewing surveillance footage from cameras outside the market, the family said.
Police were last looking for two suspects, black males, last seen running east on Leigh St. behind the market. One suspect was wearing a white t-shirt.
This homicide is the 20th for the City of Richmond this year, including all four precincts. For Sector 111, it is the 8th homicide, based on crime incident reporting.
The family told CBS6 the victim’s name but we are waiting for police confirmation before releasing it.
From the RPD:
Richmond Police needs the public’s help to identify two men seen running from the scene of a fatal shooting tonight in the city’s east end.
It happened in the 5-hundred block of Chimborazo Boulevard in front of the Chimborazo Market shortly before 7 p.m.
Officers received the call at 6:46 p.m. When they reached they scene they discovered an adult male suffering from a single gunshot wound. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The medical examiner will make a positive identification of the victim and determine the exact cause of death.
Witnesses have provided investigators with a partial description of two black males who ran from the scene of the shooting, eastbound on E. Leigh St. One male was wearing a white tee-shirt. There is no description yet of the second male. They disappeared behind Chimborazo Market.
This is the Department’s 19th homicide of the year.
Anyone with any information is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 780-1000 or text Crime Stoppers at 274637, using the key word “ITip” followed by your tip. Both methods are anonymous.
That piece by Alix on cbs6 has the numbers wrong. Will they run a correction?
Why was he killed, does anyone know?
That place should be torn down. It is a public nuisance. My condolences to the family of the victim.
So I live on the 500 block of chimborazo blvd…first of all chimbo mart closes at 5pm on sunday and yes there is a police officer on duty most of the time…and he showed up and so did the cho’s who own the store..the are helping the police with video….i heard 2 shots..my girlfriend roomate and i rushed downstairs and my GF said” theres someone in the road lying down” we rushed outside towards the man that was shot…he was talking and saying how bad it hurt but about time the first cop came he passed away…this was right out side my house..and it was crazy…there were a bunch of people that saw what happed…the shooter left the gun in the chimbo parking lot it looked like a 20gauge sawed off shot gun..so hopefully they will catch this asshole…my pryers go out to the family.
This was one of my good friends nephews. My heart goes out to him and to the remainder of the family. People really just do not care what they do to everyone involved. I am pretty sure this was over something simple that didnt have to come to this, but this is the world we live in.
Since I live close by and this is now the third shooting within two blocks of my house since 2007(not counting the stabbing next door and assault accross the street) I would highly encourage everyone to consistently look out their windows and call the police for ANY suspicious activity. There is a lot of bullshit that goes on as we have three gheto markets within three blocks of each other. This attracts nonsense like this. The store owners who see this stuff daily firsthand do not report anything so hopefully everyone can help. I know I’m tired of all of this and am ready to move.
BTW- the Blue Wheeler now sells “bowls”. I’m assuming that people are buying them to put tobacco in(insert sarcasm). Just another reason to attract more nonsense.
I had the pleasure of answering my six year old asking about said bowl. It was just lovely. The wheeler is a total eye sore and I feel for those who are hoping to wait it out…it will most likely be here for the duration. It doesnt’t make my husband and I want to move but it is a reality check.
I bet none of the parties involved reside in CH, yet CH is ultimately burdened by this senseless act of stupidity.
A BIG thank you goes out to the people who bring their beef to CH and disregard the health, safety, and well-being of the neighborhood and its residents.
The store mentioned in this story and also the store behind the Chimbo. Elementary school need to be closed down. They attract illegal activity. Of course people need to shop. But at any given time in the evening you can see 20 or more folks (many match in white tshirts and blue jeans) hanging out in the back of cars, trucks or just standing on the corner. This is not what our neighborhoods need. This is not what the chimborazo elementary school needs. What can the city do about this? What can the store owners do about this?
i dont get how someone dies and your talking about the fucking markets..its not the Fucking stores it the stupid people around the hood…and no the person is from chesterfield that was shot…..my 500 block is quite on chimbo….my house is probally the loudest and dont have any problems…im white and go into chimbo every day and have never had a problem with anyone and ive lived beside the market for 2yrs and i have a contract on buying a house across the st from me on the same block…i love living here and dont plan on moving….Plus Chimbo was closed and this has nothing to do with the market…
The school topic alone is a huge can of worms…our child does not attend in his own neighborhood sadly…this is about ten to twelve years away minimum..the shooting is a huge set back for young families hoping to make some progress with the schools up here..
Brian..of course it isn’t the market itself that caused this and I go to the store too. My point is the store..mainly the parking lot is a host for ridiculous ass behavior… I will not be moving because of it either but I wouldn’t want my kid riding his bike near crime scenes and yellow tape just the same..we will go back and we will also go to the wheeler where they sell bowls…just not this week. Good luck with the house buying..you should get a phenomenal deal considering.
how much is known regarding gangs in the area? can the police provide some details on how to identify members, groups? and can the police start to do something about their activities.
it may be for a complete lack of originality, but a number of young men men in the neighborhood wear the same “outfit” day after day–dark jeans, white t-shirt, navy blue hats. i don’t want to be overly suspicious, but can’t help but notice trend.
also we’ve had 3 pretty significant events in the last couple of months within this 4 block radius. the drive by on 37th by Franklin Military. an OK Corral style shootout on the corner of 35th and Leigh that thankfully claimed no victims (also never made it on the news, but included 3 emptied-out pistols left at the scene). and finally, this tragic shooting yesterday in broad daylight.
i echo bryan’s comments. these recent gunfights notwithstanding, the area is quiet and most of the neighbors are upstanding citizens. we’ve got a couple of thug-tards who are clearly trying to ruin things, but most of us know exactly who they are and exactly which houses they live in. i hope the police can crack down on this crap soon.
my sincere condolences to the family of the victim.
The white T-shirt, dark jeans “uniform” is partly so that clothing can’t be an identifying factor when any crime is committed.
Same reason why bankers all wear suits and ties.
also not saying the markets are the problem. Just saying they attract behaviors and folks that I would deem inappropriate….and most law abiding citizens would agree.
The folks who shot this man were out to shoot him. No matter where he was – in front the market, in front of the church, behind the school, or any place else.
@19 I don’t believe we have many gangs assoicate with national groups like the Bloods or Crips, but there is gang activity in this area. They are local gangs associated with a neighborhood. A couple of years ago there were several shootings associate with deuce-deuce gang (22nd street).
I’m Bryan’s room mate and although I have just recently moved into the house here on the 500 block of chimbo I have frequently hung out here and in the area. Putting any sort of blame on the stores or the owners is completely pointless. These marts and the grocery store offer us local places to go that don’t require having to travel far to get quick supplies or even groceries at the market. Yes there are riff raff here and there but that problem is prevelent in all areas of this city. We see and talk to the Cho’s everyday usually multiple times and there is only so much that can be done while still maintaining the buisness. They have installed new cameras and have on site Police/seurity almost daily. Don’t take it out on LOCAL buisness owners that have been here for over 20 years and give back more then anyone who has posted on here. Just be aware of your surroundings and if something looks suspicious call the non emergency number. My heart goes out to the family hurt in this senseless tragedy and I hope that because of this one incident it doesn’t put a bitter taste in people’s mouths about the local buisnesses.
I agree that having stores and markets in the area is not the cause. However, having said that, stores and markets that cater to people that buy pints of wine, 40s and bowls does bring a consistant and constant stream of thugs into the area. I live within sight of the BW and I cannot tell you how many people I have seen carrying guns, which is legal in VA as long as the gun is in plain sight. I can’t even begin to imagine how many of them are carrying guns that I cannot see. Those are the people that will shoot you and these stores bring those people to our block. I wish pints and 40s were illegal and don’t even get me started on the bowls.
RTD is reporting robbery as the motive…did anybody in the neighborhood witness the interaction prior to shots being fired?
Chimborazo Homicide Victim Identified
Richmond Police investigators have identified the man found shot to death this weekend as John J. Winston IV, 25, of the 6800 block of Ironhorse Court in Chesterfield.
Winston was found shot to death in the 500 block of Chimborazo Boulevard in front of the Chimborazo Market shortly before 7 p.m. Sunday.
Investigators believe robbery was the motive behind this crime, and are still looking for two men who were seen running from the scene on East Leigh Street. They are described as two black males, one of whom was wearing a white t-shirt.
This is the Department’s 19th homicide of the year.
Anyone with any information about this crime is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 780-1000 or text Crime Stoppers at 274637, using the key word “ITip” followed by your tip. Both methods are anonymous.
@luckydog….well said. The bowls are so unacceptable..but I suppose they are allowed seeing as they are in plain view and they are for tobacco of course.
First of all, I love this site because I can come here and really hear honest responses to incidents. I may be wrong and opinionated like many folks on here, but I believe that cleaning up and investing in a major renovation of these local stores will not only bring the value up in the area but will also deter these crimes (coupled with an end to the loitering that is allowed). I applaud the work that has been done so far by the Chimbo owners, but these folks need to do even more. The store is still an eyesore. A shooting also occurred at the Citgo on Government down Glenwood and I still see no cameras and it still looks rundown. On the other end of the spectrum, Church Hill has those who want a quiet neighborhood and those who want a party village as witnessed by some of the comments.
With all that being said, I know this was a random act and feel sorry for all concerned. I hate that residents outside of Church Hill need to bring their issues here.
The way I see it, we, as residents, have two options.
1. Avoidance (I do this now): Stay away from the crime-ridden businesses such as the Chimbo and Citgo. Do not give them business until they clean up. Avoid the areas (Chimborazo Blvd, etc) at all costs while driving, biking, or walking, especially at night.
2. Get involved to clean these neighborhoods up. I’m open to ideas here!
As much as some people loathe gentrification, I view it as a necessity in CH. As long as affordable housing advocates such as BHC maintain a presence in the neighborhood, we should not oppose gentrification.
The current state of CH is not poor by any means, but there is a lot to be desired.
I am optimistic but I highly doubt any sort of renovation is likely for any of these stores anytime soon..in the mean time…I think avoidance is too submissive..it implies I am ok with just driving to The Market..I would rather walk to the wheeler that I can see from my porch. I think if MORE people frequent these places with good intentions and perhaps pick up a piece of trash while you’re at it then the store owners will feel a need for change.
Gee,…we need to be kind of carefull about being culturaly insensitive. I mean, if your ghetto, perhaps all you can do is walk around with a gun and every now and then blow someone away.
The people who hang out around Blue Wheeler don’t diss me for playing golf.
While I was not going to respond to any of these comments I just cant help myself. I live in the house next door to the Chimbo. I work with youth who are “at risk”. I too wear white shirts and blue jeans, no I am not a gang member. And I enjoy a late night trip to the Blue Wheeler every once in a while too. And shockingly Im over 21 so can buy a 40 if I want to!! Oh and by the way I know the victim’s family. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that sooo many people are on here complaining about the stores and tying them into anything that has to do with this shooting. Mr. Cho and his wife do EVERYTHING they can. Hell riff raff go in and out of Whole Foods every day, they just may not look the part.
White tee’s and blue jeans are the style. Just like bright colors and crimped hair was the style in the 80’s. I’m not saying some people don’t dress that way for the reasoning above but many of these young kids think it looks good, and it matches with whatever shoes and hats they chose to wear.
Get out and volunteer with youth. Support groups like CHAT. Support programs that work with ex offenders, and volunteer at the schools. If you see a problem at least TRY and fix it not just complain about it. We are a great community that just needs to reach out to help instead of trying to just push people out of the neighborhood.
Yes at times the Chimbo can get rowdy. Guess what call the police. Yes sometimes people beg for money. Guess what call the police. So many people want to bitch about things and “avoid” without even attempting to make things better. Get off your soap boxes and do something or move. I’d rather have bums at my door than judgmental a holes buying places next door…
Casey, thanks for your down-to-earth take on things. I think we should all start calling the police non-emergency line for things that look suspicious, and even for smaller things like vandalism and petty theft. I called the police because two of my cheap planters were stolen off my front porch. I think it’s important to call the police about even small things like this, because they won’t know that they need to increase their presence in the area until we call them.
Working with the local businesses to help clean up the area is a great idea. Obviously safety first (maybe late nights aren’t the best time), but I don’t think the solution is necessarily to avoid the businesses. People don’t like committing crimes where there are lots of witnesses, so the more people that frequent these stores, the better. Even though the corner stores are a little sketchy, I still give them business because I like the convenience of them, and let’s face it, we still don’t have a proper grocery store near by. Second, I would say we should involve the city – keep calling them whenever you see graffiti (they’ll remove it from even private residences for free), and illegally dumped items, and pressure them to install more trash cans in the area. Graffiti and trash help breed crime.
Casey & Mars, I definitely agree with you both about getting out in the neighborhood to volunteer. You don’t need to invest a lot of time – even if it’s a few hours once or twice a year, every bit counts. Tricycle Gardens, Green Unity, and neighborhood associations like Church Hill and Union Hill Associations are great places to volunteer. Some events coming up are:
-This Thursday’s Union Hill Community Garden planting from 6-8pm. This week we’ll be meeting at 22ND & Venable to plant community apricot and apple trees, and spruce up some of the tree wells with flowers.
-Green Unity in partnership with Union Hill Civic Association will be hosting their 4th neighborhood clean-up at 1800 block of O St. on September 24th,2-4pm, meet at O & 20th St.
Maybe we could talk to some of these businesses to see if they’d let us do some simple landscaping with flowers and such? Might be a small step, but a place that looks cared for is less likely to attract crime.
I also live on the 500 block with bryan and cole and am neighbors with casey and many other amazing people. We live 3 houses down from where this happend and yes many people saw the situation occur in plain view. We did not see the crime but I witnessed a man die right in front of me waiting for the police and an ambulance. Honestly the thought of moving off my block has never occured to me since this happened. It was probably one of the sadest things I’ve ever seen. This is obviously a tragedy, but guess what, to all those snooty people out there who have these horrible opinions about the stores, schools and people……these things can’t be changed overnight and shootings happen all over the place. Move youself to a more upscale neighborhood that fits your needs and you’ll find the same stuff happens everywhere. Try researching how much this area has changed in the last 10 years and the future plans for it. Try finding out how many community programs there are to help change the area. Try getting to know the people who own these businesses and who deal with the “riff raff” on a more day to day basis than you do. They are just trying to make a living just as you are and shouldn’t be treated like they are scum for owning their own business. I am in no way saying shooting people is okay and that our neighborhood is the safest place. But come on, everyone knows the church hill reputation and you know when you move here what you may come in contact with. Change takes time and it also takes people in a community to help.
When it comes to the elementary school, if you don’t want your children to go there then its perfectly fine. But I’m pretty sure the school has been making a lot of changes for the better. I think its what children do with the education they are given that gets them places. This is coming from someone who went to the lowest income schools in virginia beach and who’s high school was nick named “gang run” by all the other high schols…I am happy to say I attended VCU and graduated with a biology degree. We should just be happy there’s a decent school around here for everyone elses children to go to.
I am sorry that this happened to their family or anyones family. I can never imagine going through what they are going through now.
You said, “The folks who shot this man were out to shoot him. No matter where he was – in front the market, in front of the church, behind the school, or any place else.”
Sounds like you know about the motive of this crime and the murderer(s). I hope you have spoken to the police and imparted your knowledge to them.
Anyone else notice how this is all too similar to the shooting that occurred at the Citgo over the winter?
Robbery was the motive, with two suspects fleeing the scene after senselessly killing a seemingly random person.
I seriously hope they catch these guys. Until then, I’m doing more avoiding and my alert system is heightened.
I also outright refuse to stop at that Citgo, having gone there only once. They could give away gas and I wouldn’t ever stop there.
Go CASEY! I live in the 600 block of 35th. The last shooting in the area occurred in front of my house. Bullets bounced off my steps. The gun was tossed into my backyard. I had police searching my house. I’m still here.
To those saying “Shut the stores down.” You’d rather have abandoned buildings and parking lots that will attract more crime? That doesn’t make sense to me. You think the Cho’s don’t do enough? REALLY? Have you been in the Chimbo mart lately? (for most of you, obviously not). They just redid the whole store. New shelves, new coolers, more produce. The place looks great! They have an off duty cop in there most of the time. He’s a really nice guy and lets me come in at 7:59pm to buy milk. And the old shelves? They let anyone who wanted them take them. I made 3 garden boxes and a sandbox for my 2 year old with that wood. So please, give me some hard proof that the Cho’s don’t do enough for the community.
As for the violence- it’s coming from some pretty concentrated areas, one being a house on my street. It’s the only problem house on my street, and those in the neighborhood know it well. RPD knows it well, and it’s only a matter of time before they all go down.
Church Hill has come a long way, but yes, it still some areas that need improvement. But you know what? Those of us that care about it are working on it. It takes time. We live here because we love it here, not because it’s the safest neighborhood in town, or has the best school. But it’s OURS. Have some pride. Avoidance and ignoring are ignorant. That’s what they do in the West End. That’s not my Church Hill.
Thanks Jennie! Let me tell you all…when they say robbery, domestic violence, or accident its all because they do not know! We can not as new comers to the neighborhood move in and think we can push people out that have lived here for years because it is the YUPPIE thing to do! Make your community better by helping those already here. There is enough to do to make it better!! Lets go folks. Stop turning a blind eye. You knew what was up when you moved here lets do something to make it better for all!
I read through the comments posted here, including my own, and I don’t hear a big push for these stores to be closed. What most people are saying is that the stores seem to cater to the population of people that are dangerous. I wish the stores would take a stand and refuse to sell products that bring drunks and druggies into their stores. Church Hill has improved so much in the 4 years I’ve been here. I want it to keep improving. I moved here because I love the area, I love the history and my old house, and I need to live in a diverse environment. However, I don’t need or want thugs, druggies and drunks in my every day life. I am tired of what the Blue Wheeler brings to my CH experience – being hit up for money by drunks every single day, fights and screaming in the street, gangs of frightening people hanging out in front of the store at all hours of the day and night, witnessing drug deals every other day, stereo blasting x-rated rap music at 11 p.m. at night, etc. I don’t think that not wanting these things in my life means I should move to Short Pump. IMHO.
I agree Lucky Dog,
I am saying don’t turn a blind eye. Trust me I had my fair share of drug deals in front of my house when I first moved in but I called them in. Let it be known you wont tolerate it. They don’t have to know it’s coming from you. You have rights too. Just try it out and see…. but just because they carry guns and drink doesn’t mean they are bad people. If it’s legal they have every right to.
Jennie- I don’t think anyone here is hoping for more permanently vacant buildings in Church Hill. We all know that we already have more than enough of those… I think anyone who is hoping that BW or other similar stores close, is hoping that they will be replaced by new businesses that cater to a different clientele. There has been a lot of talk on this blog over the past few months about people looking to open small gourmet grocery businesses, and Chimbo has one of the best locations in Church Hill for that, because they have parking.
I am not very familiar with Chimbo Market on the inside, because the thugs in the parking lot keep me away. Whether or not the Cho’s have installed new shelving, or employ a security guard, I think the bottom line is that a more upscale store would not be so attractive to the thug demographic, and so a security guard would not even be necessary. Like it or not, this neighborhood is gentrifying, and I don’t see businesses like Buzzy’s or Hill Cafe needing a guard.
You can say that we need to stop pushing people out, and help the people that are already here, but there comes a point where some of the people who are here are the very problem that is holding the neighborhood back. I am all in favor of helping those who happen to have low income, but who share my desire to live in a low-crime, well-maintained neighborhood. However, there are many in the neighborhood who just seem to perpetuate CH’s problems by throwing their empty 40 bottles in the street, playing offensive “music” at all hours, and drunkenly harrassing young women who walk for exercise. (It’s kind of sad that I don’t like to take walks around here unless my husband is with me, because my neighbors can’t greet me with a simple “Hello” instead of “I’d tap that.”) To these neighbors, I say, “Good riddance!”
When I moved to CH a little more than a year ago, I acknowleged the risks of living in the neighborhood but I did not accept them. I feel like some people living in CH accept the stupid things that happen in the neighborhood on a daily basis without maintaining a vision for a better future. We can’t let the homicides, vandalism, and theft keep throw us off. As a community, we must continue to strive for a neighborhood characterized by minimal crime, awesome diversity (race, ethnicity, age, class, renters, owners, etc), and neighborhood amenities that cater to every resident’s needs (Pentanque courts, a skate park;), various businesses, etc). I think we’re on the right path but let’s do more to make CH this best neighborhood in RVA!
Ummm as I say I live next door and I do not deal with “thugs” in the parking lot. Have you ever stopped and talked to anyone in the parking lot. Or said hello? If not don’t judge. Nice people are in and out of there allll day and no one just hangs out there. I should know.
I don’t think anyone is saying that EVERYONE there is a thug but you are straining credibility if you are suggesting that it’s all respectable taxpayers hanging out there. If they are, why would anyone need security? There’s plenty of good mixed in with the bad but don’t pretend that there’s no bad.
The crappy part is that all it takes is a few thugs to ruin a neighborhood for some folks. Even if 100 decent people go in and out of that market everyday, one or two jackasses harassing folks and throwing 40s on the ground are going to make it an unpleasant eyesore for many.
I don’t blame the owners but think we all need to admit there is still a problem in some places with some vagrant thugs and see what we can do to get them to move on.
If Chimbo market really wants to make a difference, stop allowing food stamp purchases, stop selling 40 oz beers and stop selling lottery tickets, and start selling quality food.
Ok yes there are some less than desirable but if you dont go in there you dont know what it’s like. And sorry everyone can’t afford not to be on food stamps. The only folks that should be worried about the immediate vicinity are those of us who live on this block. One tragic crime doesn’t make for a bad block. It makes for a tragic crime. If you don’t like chimbo don’t love on my block. I can’t say about BW because I dont live there. But come on you cannot turn a neighborhood like this into a neighborhood of what everyone moving in whats vs what the people who already live here need.
I’m not against offering what people “need.” I’m saying we should crack down on vagrants hanging out in front of a store. How many decent folks do you see hanging out in front of any store? Buy what you need and take it home. Play your X-rated music in your house, drink your 40 in your house. Allowing your store to turn into a meeting spot creates a magnet for folks with too much time on their hands. Sell whatever you want as far as I’m concerned but have a no loitering policy and enforce it.
“If Chimbo market really wants to make a difference, stop allowing food stamp purchases, stop selling 40 oz beers and stop selling lottery tickets, and start selling quality food.”
So….. Stop acting like a grocery store? Cause by that criteria most grocery stores in the city would be closed.
Well… there are some changes that they could stand to make at Chimbo Market to make it look less ghetto.
For example, the bars on the windows make the place look like a prison. Removing the bars would make it more inviting. Most grocery stores don’t advertise cigarettes outside as aggressively as these folks do. And then some of the services they list on the sign are clearly targeted toward more down-scale folks. Checks cashed, money orders? Since when do nice grocery stores hype these services?
I often feel like the best option is to move.
LOL, right on James. Can’t wait to get out of here!
#53, Vaya con Dios!
“because they have parking”
LOL. These are words spoken by someone who seems she’d be far more happy living in a suburban environment, where she need not worry about the “down-scale” and where parking is abundant and one never has to be outside of his car for more than a few moments.
Improving Church Hill by creating a livable environment where people from all walks of life can meet their needs, be they shopping for fruits and vegetables or cashing a check if they don’t happen to have a checking account. Major, successful cities are walkable environments with a population large and dense enough to encourage the establishment of businesses that cater to everyone; not your little yuppie demographic at the expense of the “down-scale.”
All yall doin is camplain why move here in the first place ppl been living in ch forever but yall move around here and want to change something go back to where u come form and u want have to deal with it bc the ppl u talking bout been makeing before you got here
g, can you please convert your post to English.
don’t be a dick, you know exactly what he’s saying
It takes a village, eh Hillary?
james be a dick?
as i said before…don’t let the door hit you on the way out…
@55 – truer words were never spoken.
James – grow up.
Yawn. Just because some of us respect the written word, does not mean we have to ignore the ignorance. Then again, I try to not let insults and negativity from people that don’t know when to use capital letters get to me. It really comes down to two groups of people out here. The first group is happy with this mess out here on the east end. They will fight all change, because they don’t think things are that bad or they have never lived in a truely nice/safe area. The other group knows that even with the progress we have seen in the last ten years, there is still a lot of improvements that need to be made. That group is ready to admit where the problem areas are and push for a real change. I find myself more aligned with the latter. My reason for wanting to leave this area, is the simple fact that the first group still dominates. The neighborhood will always be what you make it.
oh james. you never cease to amaze us with your condescending bull. ee cummings didn’t use capitals, was he ignorant?
So that you can “hear” my words versus being the ass you continue to be…
I can happily use the “proper” capital letters necessary if I cared enough about your drivel to be bothered by the shift key. But…sadly, you are a waste of space in Church Hill. Once condescending folks like you leave the area, we can make way for real change.
It is the people with ignorant attitudes and racist and classist driven chips on their shoulders (like you….) that continue to keep our neighborhood from progressing. When you look upon your neighbors with disdain, you can’t enter into a real and authentic relationship with others geared towards change. I imagine in all your years on the hill, that you have rarely, if ever engaged in any meaningful conversations with anyone who isn’t middle to upper class. Sad.
So, James, as many here have said…we happily await the day when you shove off and stop posting on this blog and blighting our neighborhood.
LOL! Class and race is the argument you always have to fall back on. Why do you have to be wealthy and white to want an area to look less blighted? I am far from wealthy. In fact, I am guessing I have probably done more real honest manual labor than you, just to make a living. Not even 3 years ago, I was working maintenance in a steel mill. Please don’t start with you BS arguments about my life and my background. I am lower middle class, living in a part of town that is mostly lower middle class. I want my neighborhood to improve. I want this place to be less attractive to criminals. However, there are still too many people, like you, that want to defend the problem areas. Every single person on my block shares my views on what the neighborhood needs to improve. Do I live in the projects? No, I don’t. That doesn’t mean my block is full of wealthy uppity white folks. Save your attitude for the Far West people, because it is unwarranted here.
It’s not about skin color or income. It’s about values. I could care less about what your race or income is as long as we agree on trying to take care of our neighborhood and making it a better place.
You know…I had a whole long response typed out about how your opinions come from a place of privilege, that you have probably been too blind your entire life to acknowledge….but then I realize, that some things will always continue to fall on deaf ears. You have no desire to make any lasting change in this neighborhood or to see past your own blind ideals of what “better” is. In no way is anyone on this blog defending the actions of the slum lords or the criminals. What we are defending is your constant attempts to lump the poor working class into the same category. Your ignorance in starting a pissing contest about how awesomely lower middle class you are is further proof of your privilege and lack of awareness of cultural relativism.
If you want to see a difference, get your head out of your ass and get out in the community and start working for some of this change you keep touting. Better yet, let me know what grass roots initiatives you have been part of that are geared towards inclusive change in the neighborhood and I will gladly help you make some change.
Until you are active in the community though, you have no right to complain.
Oh and before you go throwing stones at people for improper grammar…make sure you aren’t standing in a glass house of “text” language or forgetting an “r” on the end of “your”. LOL 😉
“JUST”-I’ll be the first to start a petition for the removal of Section 8 housing/housing projects in Churchill. Will you sign it?
please leave me out of this.
all this slinging is getting a little
too mud lucious
OOOH, you got me. My single typo is so much worse than not being able to capitalize a single word in a paragraph.
By the way, lower middle class sucks. That is why I am working to get out of it.
I would like to know where I stated poor people were criminals. I am guessing your reading skills are on the level of your writing. I believe the only statements that I have made in here are following:
1. Moving is an option.
2. Most of Church Hill likes to fight change.
3. Some people posting in this blog missed a few English classes.
However, I do side with the people who say stores like the Blue Wheeler attract the criminal types because of the environment they provide. There, now you can feel free to bash me for another opinion. I know you hate us “pro-gentrification” types. Biggot.
Yes, I’m the biggot here. You are a joke.
Just to attempt to have you “hear” anything on the other side, I’ve clearly demonstrated that my college education did in fact teach me how to use capitals. Yet, that is neither here nor there…because you nit-pick details like capitalization because the rest of your argument holds no water.
But to address your “points”…
I don’t think most of us fight change…we fight YOUR type of change that requires pushing out the very people who have made this their home for a very long time. We resist change based on outsiders coming in and trying to change it into their vision without talking to the people who have spent the better part of the last 100 years living in Church Hill…long before the folks like you would even come into this area. We resist the real bigots coming in trying to force gentrification down everyone’s throats based on paternalistic ideas of what Church Hill should look like. I am all for authentic change towards a sustainable community that is mixed income, mixed use, and includes the very people YOU wish to eradicate.
I have a vision of Church Hill where everyone has a voice. You have a vision of your way or the highway. The problem with you “pro-gentrification” types, as you call yourself, is that you often forget to include the people who were here before you. Kind of like Columbus…come in and beat them out of their home…only, you use your privilege to “beat” them instead of your musket.
And now I’m done. I’ve wasted enough energy on you.
You are clearly not in this to hear any other side of the story besides your own.
So, rant away about my poor grammar or what ever drivel you have to pick at instead of addressing the real issues…
Oh, and I’m still waiting for an invite to all the initiatives and organization you are a part of to help make Church Hill a better place. You can list them here…when you are ready.
Another example of the way many people on this blog want to eradicate many of the poor in this area. You further prove my point that many of those who post have classist intentions.
Of course, I would never advocate removing all section 8 housing from Church Hill. Just because people are living below the poverty line doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to live where ever the choose. I wonder if you realize that Section 8 housing is present in almost every neighborhood in the city and surrounding areas.
I’m sure what you meant is you want to get rid of the housing developments. Furthermore, because you are such a kind and educated individual, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to just tear down buildings leaving much of the residents homeless and out on the street. What you meant, I just know it, is that you want to see the housing developments replaced with mixed-use and mixed-income space. You are all for destroying the concentration of poverty in this city. Something like Chicago did with Cabrini-Green, right?
I know you aren’t the heartless type that would rather just push people out, not caring if they lived or died on the streets. No, I just know you aren’t that person.
So, sure, when you re-wright the petition and word it in a way that conveys your real intent, I will happily get on board.
Wouldn’t want to offend the grammar gods. 🙂
“I am all for authentic change towards a sustainable community that is mixed income, mixed use, and includes the very people YOU wish to eradicate.”
That is funny. Church Hill didn’t seem to be too mixed before gentrification. I seem to remember this area being referred to as the murder capitol. Only after middle class people started buying old dilapidated houses did things start to really improve.
“I have a vision of Church Hill where everyone has a voice. You have a vision of your way or the highway.”
That has nothing to do with gentrification. If you live here and pay your taxes, you have a voice.
“Kind of like Columbus…come in and beat them out of their home…only, you use your privilege to “beat” them instead of your musket.”
Wow. Saying all people that want to gentrify an area are adamant about forcing people out of their homes, is just as ignorant as saying all poor people are criminals.
“You are clearly not in this to hear any other side of the story besides your own.”
I hear it, and think it is rather absurd.
“Oh, and I’m still waiting for an invite to all the initiatives and organization you are a part of to help make Church Hill a better place. You can list them here…when you are ready.”
I would list them, but you obviously don’t think they are making this area a better place to live. After all, they are mixed race and mostly middle class. If this area didn’t have historical significance, I would love to see you get your wish. All the middle class could move out and degentrify the area. You would be left with a Church Hill that looked like it was back in 1994.
#72: Wow…you’re really something else!
I certainly would like to live in Windsor Farms but I can’t afford it so I don’t. I’m tired of my tax dollars being used to support people who can’t afford things. If you can’t affod it, then you don’t get it. That’s how those of us in the real world live. Unfortunately, those in the projects and other section 8 area dont’ see it that way. Their sense of entitlement never cease to amaze me.
#70, #71, uh, bigot has one “g” right? Too funny.
@Just, @James – I find it interesting how similar the vision everyone here describes for the neighborhood is. Almost everyone here seems to be in favor of some kind of mixed-income, mixed-race, sustainable neighborhood. I think the arguments otherwise don’t make for a productive conversation as that doesn’t seem to be where you disagree.
I think what differs between your visions is how people will act when we achieve that community.
Many of the new folks believe that this mixed community is going to be best if those who stay here adopt a lot of the values they are bringing. It’s not about race or income but about how folks behave. There may be some merit to this but it can be seen as condescending.
On the other hand, those who have been here believe that it’s their right to continue living as they have been. This may be also somewhat true as well but it doesn’t do them any favors in the way of earning the respect of their new neighbors.
If we are going to achieve a sustainable mixed community, we all need to recognize that our shit stinks sometimes. You can expect that everyone else conform to/accept your standard of living and values or you can try to do a better job of being a neighbor.
It cuts both ways and I don’t think many of us realize that. Just because you have money doesn’t mean that you get to tell others what to do. Just because you were here first doesn’t mean you don’t need to change anything when the community improves.
thanks just a neighbor. it gets a little lonely watching losers run their sucks about people they are too cowardly to attempt to befriend. listening to these poor frightened jerks trying to act all matter of fact about their tightly held 1950 era racial views is sad.you will notice ,same mystery meanies egging each other on to see who can come closest to saying something really racist. go ahead pogues. you do it when you are talking to your other scared littlehearted bigot friends. go ahead right? your “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” is protected by your need to escape responsibility for your racist hatin. do you guys have a clubhouse or are you too frightened to associate except in the appropriate forum where you can hide your loathsome jim crow attitudes?murden knows who you are!and just a neighbor? OWN your words by posting under your real name. nobody signed the declaration of independence” james the punkass mystery puke.” just sayin. yall have a nice day.
#76, not according to the urban dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Biggot
@All bark…i knew it was wrong and corrected it half way down my post. i was quoting james calling me a “biggot”
who quotes the urban dictionary? merriam-webster, OED…but the urban dictionary?
for the record…i’m not against renewing and reinvigorating the neighborhood. i’m not against a mixed income neighborhood….but gentrification at the very basis of it’s definition often INCLUDES the displacement of people:
gentrification: the process of renewal and rebuilding accompanying the influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces poorer residents
I am not against the type of change that doesn’t displace the people who lived here before all of us started moving in.
This is difficult and a balance must be struck. Notice that south of board is devoid of the original occupants. Yes, it is a “nicer” area, the homes do look lovely, but where are the people who lived there before the “affluent” started moving in? Pushed to the fringes.
@Sew….clearly, you have a horrible view of people living with Section 8. Take a peak at the available Section 8 housing, and you will find that most, if any, live in Windsor Farms.
I, personally, don’t have a problem with people who need a little help to survive. Many do work multiple jobs working for so little money that they are barely getting by. They don’t see their children because they work two shifts and two jobs making minimum wage. They also have aspirations of better schools for the kids. The sad truth is that something like 70% of RPS students never take the SAT…which means, 70% don’t go to college. A vast majority of the other 30% don’t do well. Poverty is having a huge impact on the kids living in poverty and it is a vicious cycle that is hard to escape.
I wish you could see past your view points and assumptions about people living in poverty and have some conservations with people. PEOPLE. Just like in any system, plenty of people abuse plenty of systems…you think the rich don’t abuse their cushy tax breaks? But for the one or two that you are stereotyping the rest by, there are hundreds and thousands who don’t abuse the system and are not getting rich on the system (which, BTW, is impossible. No one is getting rich on welfare.) They are people trying to feed their family and provide a safe place to live. Your ignorance proves your lack of interaction with any one who is actually living in poverty.
@ Alex….you are right in that in the end, we have the same goals. A better Church Hill. And you are right, it is the means to the end that we are arguing over. I simply can’t be part of a movement that disenfranchises those who have lived here before the gentrification process began. I can’t support a paternalistic movement of wealthy or middle class people who make no effort to include the voices of those who were here before them. The reality is that the working poor in Church Hill don’t read this blog. Having internet is probably not a priority when you have to choose between food or clothing. They probably have no way of knowing when meetings are that discuss change. These types of initiatives are the work of the educated and privileged (regardless of race.) Because we are in this position of power, due to our education, it is then our job to do everything in our power to get the message out in a non-paternalistic, non-condescending manner. The Civil Right’s movement was lead by the educated class, but they were able to motivate the masses.
How we better Church Hill will always be our point of contention.
I know I make mistakes and I can readily attest to them. But if you aren’t doing the good work, you are just in the way.
“Poor people have been voting democrat for over 50 years……………..and they are still poor”-Charles Barkley
AND I WONDER WHY? lol
@80 – fair points. Not to argue with any of what you said but more as an honest question – how does the lack of support for a paternalistic movement jibe with your points later in the post that we are in a position of responsibility and we should look out for those less fortunate? The two sound very similar to me.
I agree with the former but not the latter. I think it is up to all of us, rich or poor, black or white, to own our own behavior. It’s unrealistic to expect that the poor build fancy houses, but not unrealistic to expect that they treat what they do have with respect. To think otherwise creates attitudes that eventually do lead to paternalism.
That said, it’s also fair to expect that the rich not become assholes and show some respect to their neighbors who are less fortunate. This doesn’t mean making excuses for them but if the wealthy have problems with the fact that some folks can’t afford a nicer house, because of a lack of means (rather than a lack of desire), they should do what they can as neighbors to correct that.
I commend any members of our community who have little means but still show some pride in what they do have. We need more people like them and they will be the key to a successful mixed community.
I think the other key is those who volunteer to help the less fortunate and work to show them that not all people who are well off are heartless assholes. They have the means to make change happen and will be essential if this vision we have is to succeed.
I think we can do without those who think the poor need to treated as inferiors who can’t control their own behavior as they foster bad behavior by lowering the expectations that the poor have for themselves.
We can also do better without those who think anyone different than them needs to be pushed out. They need to find a community that isn’t mixed… and there are plenty of those around here to choose from.
One of the best ways to combat the concentrated poverty that plagues the East End is “strategic” gentrification. If the City continues to acknowledge the importance of affordable housing in gentrifying neighborhoods, the negative aspects of gentrification can be mitigated.
Just a thought.
“who quotes the urban dictionary? merriam-webster, OED…but the urban dictionary?”
Ummm, you lack a sense of humor. Obviously, by the smiley, most people could tell that I was making a joke.
“This is difficult and a balance must be struck. Notice that south of board is devoid of the original occupants. Yes, it is a “nicer” area, the homes do look lovely, but where are the people who lived there before the “affluent” started moving in? Pushed to the fringes.”
Actually, I would say we are quite mixed here South of Broad. I have black and white neighbors. I have neighbors that rent, and neighbors that own their homes. The household incomes range from $20k to $200k a year for most. The original inhabitants of the houses below Broad likely died, leaving their property to family. Usually, inherited property gets sold off. This is especially true when it is an area that would be considered unsafe (ie Church Hill in the 90’s). I know I have traced my home’s history back 25 years and never found any poor owners. Just normal middle class white people, living through the east end war time.
“gentrification: the process of renewal and rebuilding accompanying the influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces poorer residents”
In your definition, you missed the word often. Often and always are two very different words.
As for section 8, I am all for it in moderation. Housing projects are the wrong way to help the poor. Concentrated poverty will always lead to crime.
@James…I don’t speak in smileys. You quoted the urban dictionary. I can’t read tone on the internet. The sarcasm was missed. Stop making assumptions about me.
But that is neither here nor there.
I didn’t miss the word “often.” You clearly read what you wanted to or tried to pick at what I said to prove your point. Only problem is, that I clearly state the word OFTEN in the sentence prior to the definition. I said right before quoting the definition:
“i’m not against a mixed income neighborhood….but gentrification at the very basis of it’s definition often INCLUDES the displacement of people”
See the word often? Right before the all in caps “INCLUDES”?
didn’t miss it. it OFTEN includes. And it isn’t my definition. I got it from Merriam Webster. Also, I didn’t say it always did. But let’s be honest, in Church Hill…it DOES include the displacement of people.
And only looking back 25 years? Not complete enough for a neighborhood that has been around well over 100 years. Decline started in the 1950’s. 25 years ago, preservation efforts were already under way in small scale ways. The displacement of citizens isn’t happening all at once, but it is…happening.
@Alex…Great point and trust me, I struggled with how to word it without coming off sounding like the very thing I condemn.
Let me try to reword. I think there are many people in our neighborhood who simply don’t have the means or education to know how to get involved. Those who wish to enter a neighborhood and work towards change need to solicit the input of everyone who lives here…not just those who think like we do. It is our job to offer ways for them to be heard and share their input. We have to find ways to ask them to get involved…beyond that, we can’t make anyone care or make anyone get involved. My point is that we can’t just come in and start making stuff happen the way we want to see it happen without giving everyone the chance to have a voice. You can’t have planning meetings and never inform people they are happening. I consider myself a well educated person with middle class means…I know how to seek out information and I still miss these meetings. Sometimes it isn’t always easy to find the information. I’ve lived in Church Hill since the late 90’s and only recently found this blog. Imagine those people who aren’t educated enough to advocate for themselves.
All I am saying is make an effort, an authentic effort to include everyone and meet people where they are. If they default to others, then they disenfranchised themselves. But, if we never set up alternative ways for people to be heard, then it isn’t the right way to advocate change.
I hope I’ve clarified.
as for Lou…i’m not feeding the troll.
@JD…I completely agree.
“And only looking back 25 years? Not complete enough for a neighborhood that has been around well over 100 years. Decline started in the 1950?s. 25 years ago, preservation efforts were already under way in small scale ways. The displacement of citizens isn’t happening all at once, but it is…happening.”
I don’t think middle class people buying houses that would otherwise be condemn and destroyed is technically considered gentrification. Most of the homes in the south of Broad area would be gone, had they not been purchased in an effort to save the neighborhood. I see no negative in that. I also doubt any people were truly displaced during that effort. It seems like the people that owned the homes sold them, as they did not care to repair them or could afford to bring them up to code.
“@JD…I completely agree.”
JD just simplified what I have been saying the whole time. I don’t want people to be forced out of their homes. I do want the mid class to buy up part of the property in the low income areas to actually bring in some economic and social diversity. Why are you arguing with me, if you agree with JD?
@85 – Agree with your clarification.
@just a neighbor…
What about the middle class people who were displaced by lower class people when Church Hill’s decline started? Church Hill was certainly not built to be a lower class neighborhood… I think it’s a stretch to even say it was built to be a mixed income neighborhood. The vast majority of homes here were built by middle and upper class folks who intended Church Hill to be the nicest neighborhood in Richmond. Then they, or their children, were pushed out by slumlords and other people who wanted Church Hill to be a place where drugs are welcomed, crime overlooked, and houses left to rot. (Degentrification, if you will…) Why should the rights of those who want CH to remain run-down and unsafe supercede those that want CH to return to its roots as one of Richmond’s most desirable neighborhoods?
Also, I don’t see the people who leave as being forced out. No one is actually forcing them. There are laws against discrimination in housing, both rental and owner-occupied. The neighborhood is changing, and if current residents still like it, they are welcome to forgo selling their homes, or to continue renting here. Some may choose to move someplace cheaper when rents rise, but that is not “being forced”; that is making a rational decision to save money on rent. Others may choose to sell their homes when prices get sufficiently high, but again, that is not “being forced”; that is making a rational choice to cash in on their increased equity and use the money for something else.
@Mrs.Alex…that was white flight. They could have stayed and fought for their neighborhood. They had the means to stay. But they didn’t want to live where black people lived. That was racially driven. Do a little research on the white flight of the 1950’s. I am happy to have that conversation with you as much of my education was spent studying this time period. They weren’t priced out of their homes because they could no longer afford the taxes.
If I have to choose between feeding my children and paying the property tax on my home, I am being forced to choose. Therefore forced out of my home. Yes, I could forgo food for my children, but then you would have me arrested for neglect.
“Then they, or their children, were pushed out by slumlords and other people who wanted Church Hill to be a place where drugs are welcomed, crime overlooked, and houses left to rot. ”
is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Black people moved in who could afford the area and because of the racial division of the time, whites ran…fast…to more homogenous neighborhoods. I don’t have time to reeducate you right now…
Here is some light reading:
@James…As Alex said (I do wonder if you read the responses), we are very much in favor of the same thing…just different means to a end.
In the interest of bringing this conversation back to the topic at hand: the influx of thugs and/or criminals around the markets and stores in the Church Hill area. Tonight there were 2 fights in front of the Blue Wheeler. Both fights were grossly violent and the participants were the guys who hang out constantly in front of that store. One of the participants has been pan handling out in front of the store for 3 nights straight. No one from the store responded to the fights. My husband called 911 but no officers showed up.
Well whether it was middle class whites who were pushed out, or middle class whites who voluntarily moved out and then middle class blacks who were pushed out by lower class… the point is that somehow this neighborhood went from being extremely desirable in the early twentieth century to extremely undesirable in the late twentieth century. The people who are trying to return it to its previous state are not villains.
Also, in regard to the comment about people being forced out of their homes because they can no longer afford the taxes… If the tax assessment on the home has gone up that much unexpectedly, then the potential sale price has probably also gone up significantly. In this case, these homeowners have a potential windfall if they sell, so they can also benefit from the higher property values. (And if the potential sale price has NOT gone up accordingly, then there is a process whereby they can request a re-assessment, and have their taxes lowered.)
No one is villianizing those who want to improve the neighborhood. I am one who does my best to improve my home (a renovated 1890’s home built on the north side of Broad) and improve my neighborhood.
I am simply not trying to do so in a way that is paternalistic, racist and classist.
As for your response to taxes/selling…many of the homes we are talking about are probably not in great condition or in a sellable condition. That doesn’t mean that a nominal increase in taxes wouldn’t be the difference in choices between food/clothes/etc.
We are talking about people who make very little money and live from pay check to pay check. Even a $100 increase could be devastating.
Lastly, I would put a decent size bet down that most people have no idea about the re-assessment request process, educated or not. I had no idea until I was told about it. When you have a high school education…or less…you get a bill from the government and you believe that is the end all say all. The city government doesn’t ctly made it easy to find out that you can appeal to have it reduced.
You can’t assume that all people know how to advocate for themselves.
And I’m done.
Side Note: I’ve been in CH for quite some time. What is the Blue Wheeler? Where is it?
I am honestly disgusted by the way certain people posting talk have talked about other people in CH, which why not stop there they might as well be talking about people all over the world. Why don’t you climb out of the 1700/1800’s ( I hope you can figure that out on your own), everyone’s wallets and your own ass and stop treating people like trash. You have grouped and targeted so many different types of people and made assumptions about them and their lives. I would honestly hate to meet you because I would be afraid of your judging me. I’m pretty sure a large chunk of the conversation you just had was with yourself
and that just posted without me finishing…but okay…
I do not see how an incident that happened on our block turned into such a war. Crazy how we all cannot get along, even in our own neighborhood. Well except everyone on our block. We all respect each other and hang out quite often. It’s tragedies like these that should bring people together not tear them apart.
Where did the perception that Church Hill was such a bad place come from? I ask because I am in my mid 30s and have lived here all my life (area around Chimborazo school) and attended RPS, which means I grew up in the 80s-early 90s, and I never felt afraid to go out anytime. I never saw all of this violence and drug dealing. I never went ducking from bullets nor was I afraid of being outside after dark. Actually, it is a bit scarier now because the neighbors turn over so frequently that by the time you get to know them new ones move in, and I do not know if the people approaching are decent or not, because I do not know them, whereas before the only one that came up to you was Bingo.
With that, I can see both sides of the gentricifation issue, but I land on the side of not displacing people that were around during the “bad times.”
@ #93: Blue Wheeler is at 32nd and Marshall. I will admit that cannot recall ever going there.
The Blue Wheeler is the corner market at N 32nd and E Marshall Streets. It caters to people who buy 40s and pints of wine. They also sell supplies for smoking pot. They do stock a small selection of 6 packs- beer and wine coolers, some low-end bottled wine and some necessities but most of their clientele come in for the 40s or pints of wine.
“@James…As Alex said (I do wonder if you read the responses), we are very much in favor of the same thing…just different means to a end.”
I read it, and still don’t understand your point. In one post you are anti-gentrification, then another you are ok with it (to a point). No one here is against a mixed neighborhood. Have you actually ventured south of Broad and met the people that live here? I would say gentrification made a very diverse community here.
“Side Note: I’ve been in CH for quite some time. What is the Blue Wheeler? Where is it?”
Blue Wheeler Grocery?
3120 East Marshall Street
Richmond, VA 23223-7437
It is a block from the Elementary school. Just a corner store that sells 40’s and “tobacco” pipes.
James…I have never said I didn’t believe in a safer, cleaner, better Church Hill. It seems common sense to me that no one moves in to a neighborhood hoping to see it disintegrate into ruins. That would be silly. My problem has always been the way people on this blog talk about their neighbors. For goodness sake, any group of young black men hanging out is referred to as “thugs” or “criminals” or “drug dealers.”
What if they are really just young black men hanging out with their friends?
Are their criminals in Church Hill? Sure.
Are their criminals in every neighborhood? Of course.
I just don’t understand why anyone thinks you will ever have 0% crime. We live in a city.
And I can’t stand the attitudes that are always present on this blog that come off as being paternalistic, racist (thug comments, etc) and classist.
Just because I’m against displacing people, against talking down to them, against all of the things I have laid out in every single post, does NOT mean that I want a dirty, crime-ridden neighborhood.
As for “south” of Broad… I have been over their enough times to know that as ride my bike through, walk my kids around, or drive through, there is very little diversity in the VAST majority of people who live there. I’m not saying that there may be some, but come on, does one black neighbor make a diverse neighborhood? Does two? When you are talking about a city (proper) that is 75% African American, what percent live of South of Broad is African American? I’m sure it is no where near 75%, right?
And if we look at poverty statistics for the city, what does your neighborhood mirror the city statistics?
I mean, James, honestly, I don’t know….As I have said, I don’t think you and I want different things. I just don’t view my neighbors in the way that you appear to when you post on here.I’m talking about perceptions based on what you type. Of course, as we have seen, I can’t read you tone, nor you, mine. You might be completely different then you come off online.
Perhaps you really are a good guy…and maybe after this discussion you will think about the way you talk to people or about them. I mean, when the person posted above and you told him to “translate to English…” that is horrible and insensitive and borders on racist…sorry. I know you get offended by that, but how will grow if we aren’t willing to be wrong and learn?
I hear you, but you don’t hear others. Or so it seems…
As for the store….I gotcha now. I thought it was perhaps the store behind Chimbo, on Leigh (or is it Clay?) and then I thought for a minute it might be the one on Jefferson. I just wasn’t sure as I don’t think any of them have a name on the outside…but I could be wrong.
There’s a lot of good points in your post but I disagree with a few of them.
1. Saying that correcting grammar is racist is actually pretty racist itself. How do you know the ethnicity of the original poster? Are you saying that African-Americans can’t be expected to use correct grammar? Sorry, I find this condescending and offensive. There is nothing racist about criticizing anyone for doing something incorrectly. There’s a phrase that fits this well – “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” Please check yourself for this.
2. Similarly, your comment that anyone who calls a group of men hanging out thugs or drug dealers is wrong is also flawed. Sometimes they will actually be right, sometime they’ll be wrong. How often this occurs depemds on the frequency that actual drug dealers are appearing here and the commenter’s ability to judge corrrectly.
I agree we should be careful not to rush to judgment but there are actually thugs and drug dealers in this neighborhood. So theoretically they may be right. Unless you know who someone is referring to, how can you say whether they are right or wrong?
I’d agree if you said to be careful judging but that’s not what you are saying. You are saying that those who post these things are judging incorrectly. Aren’t you rushing to judgment yourself? Is it ok to rush to judgment if you are calling your neighbors racists but not if you call them thugs? What if you have good reason to suspect someone is dealing drugs?
I understand where you are coming from regarding the language thing…but there is motive/intent of racism and there are expectations. I’m a teacher. I tell my kids they need to use “proper” English all the time in the classroom. Writing a paper with text words is not acceptable. I also understand that there is slang that is acceptable in informal settings…such as this. I would never correct a person in a informal setting. For all of us, their is a dual identity (sometimes more) of formal settings and informal. If I am out riding around with some friends…I might say “sick!” or some equally slang-ish thing to say. In a job interview, I would never say something that bordered on slang.
So, to correct someone on an internet forum,where slang is perfectly acceptable, and where you (general you) have used text slang like “LOL” or smileys, lacks cultural sensitivity and borders on racism.
We’ll have to disagree on that point.
As for the second part, you are right. I should have been more clear that people need to stop rushing to judgement about groups of young black men standing around.
Actually, I think it is rude to complain on a blog or forum if you are too lazy to use basic sentence structure. I don’t see how that is racist. I agree with Alex that the fact that you linked poor grammar or poor writing to a certain race would make you racist yourself. I just saw that as a lazy internet poster, who I am more than happy to criticize. I don’t expect anyone to have perfect grammar or spelling, especially when this thing doesn’t let you edit your posts. I do expect people to be less lazy and actually write something that others can understand.
By the way, I consider teenagers of all races to be the epitome of bad internet writing.
chimbo market…nice and clean and they have d batteries!
Shit,…a man gets murdered on Chimbo and we are correcting each others grammer.
Okay James…I’m bored fighting with you. Clearly, you’re closed minded and unwilling to see anything but your own world. Sad.
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