I need to put that sign up in front of the Blue Wheeler. And one of those “no cursing” signs like they have in VA Beach. If only law enforcement felt the same way.
Lucky Dog…have you been calling the police when these thing occur? Have you called the Mayor to have a chat with him about the problems that you’re experiencing? The only way to get these things changed is to call…call…call and be vigilant about it. If you make your voice heard at City Hall…they eventually will listen.
I think you mentioned in one of your prior posts that you didn’t consider the Blue Wheeler a cancer in the neighborhood. I may be mistaken but that perplexing to me.
Me too. I just may do this. Email our police lieutenant in charge of our sector. I have many times regarding noise violations from music. I don’t get a solid answer. I emailed recently since the new noise ordinance was passed asking if they would enforce this and I got no response. The more people complain, the better chance we have.
i hope we classify (ghetto) as people and not one race and for anon the correct spelling isn”t getto asshole it’s ghetto,but if were talking about african american your even a bigger assholes, what does anyone has to say about the irish bands that live in the nieghborhood and cause a lot of noise or the hippies that group up in the porches on 23rd and jefferson so when we say ghetto make sure you include whites in that ghetto convo,and you know what dont listen to the bullshit about knocking on someone window fussing or cursing because they might just feel threatend and blow your heade the fuck off, lets be serious its the city life not the fucking county HELLLO!!!!!!
I’ve called the police, sent emails (copying the mayor), called the BW directly, and complained to anyone who will listen. By the time the police respond to a noise/drinking in public/panhandling/etc. complaint, the source is long gone.
I stand by my statement that the BW is not a “cancer” on our neighborhood. The owners will meet requirements, laws, etc. Their standards are low because the city of Richmond has set a low standard, IMHO.
The noise that I am complaining about is from cars parked and left running in front of the BW while the occupants run into the store or stand on the sidewalk to converse. I can curse with the best of them but I don’t use curse words as adjectives, nouns, verbs, etc. It wears on you after a while when every other word you hear from overly loud conversations is “fuck”. Again, IMO.
I don’t normally respond to juvenile comments like the one written by #9, but that has to be about the most snot nosed immature comment in a while. You may also want to remember that their is a noise ordinance and you never know when an officer may be sitting at the intersection just waiting for you, and others with the same attitude as you.
Like so many of the other issues in the area, this one falls under having some common courtesy for fellow neighbors. It actually takes effort to not have any. Let’s keep hope alive though.
OK, so I’ve been out of town for the better part of two weeks and just saw this thread – where is this sign? I would appreciate it if someone would clue me in, thanks.
I would also like to know who it is that is patrolling the neighborhood on an incredibly loud motorcycle in the wee hours of the morning. Up and down and up and down the streets? Besides being annoyed (and awake,) I am just plain curious as to why this person doesn’t have anything better to do with their time……
#15 neighbor – yes, it certainly does look like that corner – thanks for posting that, I recognize it now. The awning would be for the ice cream place, so if that’s the corner then the photo was taken looking east. Unless the ice cream parlor is suddently having music (which I don’t believe they have a license for), then I have to assume the complaining sign is regarding vehicle noise driving by. I live quite near there, and the only noise I hear is occasional passing vehicle noise with loud thumping bass.
Many of the older homes in CH have single pane windows, which allows for you to hear almost every noise as plain as day. Granted, I like music just like many other people but the difference is I think of my fellow neighbor before blasting my music aloud. What if I love Led Zeppelin but my next door neighbor likes classical? I can bet they don’t want to hear my music.
I understand it is a city, but darn it— CH is not a city center. CH is a residential community with a few small local businesses.
It would be nice if everyone, I mean EVERYONE, would have a little more respect for not only their neighbor, but themselves too. Honestly, blasting your music very loud (all kinds) is extremely annoying, especially if every other word is explicit. I don’t want to hear about “that chick’s bill-o-heath or what she got from that m-f” hip-hop or “death to all – f-u” metal. Really—I don’t even want to hear Beethoven blasting either, soothing but still disruptive.
Come on now—you blasting your music so loud that my organs rattle does NOT help build you much rapport with your fellow neighbors.
Let’s all pull up our big-boy panties and learn to respect others who share the same environment.
OK, I have now seen the sign, and to #15 (just a neighbor) yes it is most definitely at 25th and Broad Streets on the pole on the SE corner, visible if you are coming east on Broad. There is actually another sign, or there was until all this rain may have washed both of them away. The other one is visible if you are coming up (north) on 25th Street, it’s on the same pole other side, and says “This intersection is around businesses and HOMES. Turn your music DOWN, we want to sleep!”
The corner has ModelLogix as a business but there are apartments up top, all the way down over several buildings, so I think someone in one (or more) of those apartments/homes has had to put up with cars blasting loud boom-boom music, hence the sign.
#4 Magneto, from what I’ve seen of the signs, I would guess that it is coming from moving cars at the intersection of 25th and Broad.
Seems to me, that there are two basic types living in churh Hill…the “newbies” the ones that are forever “improving” the “hood” and the “locals” the ones that have been here for generatons…it’s quite obvious that most of the “locals” probably don’t frequent this web site.
Perhaps a bit of “getting over yourselves” is in order here, or better yet moving.
@#17: One of them is a guy on a ruckus scooter. Not to call out the specific address, but he’s on Glenwood Ave. Call the police when he does it. Between that and the dog he lets roam the street and chase folks, he is driving me insane.
#25, if it weren’t for the “newbies,” this area would still be the shithole it was in the 90′s.
By the way, my neighbors have been here longer than most of the people blasting their car subwoofers have been alive. I guess their complaints aren’t valid either. Personally, I don’t care that much, as I don’t have high expectations for the youth of richmond. However, I think people have a right to complain about the noise.
Agreed James! And gsr, I’ve been here for 8 years and have finally decided to move. Good luck with your neighborhood. If only all the other newbies would move and let the neighborhood return to what it once was.
#28-James: Well said.
I guess I’m considered to be a “newbie”. I’ve lived in CH for a little over 4 years. I am not going to “get over myself”, whatever that might mean. And I’m not moving.
#28 why does anyone live in an urban environment when they are bothered by noise? and to #21 and #18 Amen to that, you got it right! Maybe my point is, that people need to remember and be respectful of everyone, not just the people that fit their tiny molds of being “ok”. I hear people in here complaining of “ugly” eye sores etc…if you want homogenized/cookie cutter move to the suburbs!
gsr, Your post makes absolutely no sense. Let’s not act like cranking the bass up in your car stereo is some right or privilege. It is a noise violation, and technically the police (if they had the time) could ticket you for it. Please stop talking about this like it is normal urban noise. I lived in downtown Chicago for 3 years (you know, a real city) and never heard as much house rattling bass as I hear in CH. Like I said, I can understand why people are complaining.
So, I live on 25th. Just around the corner from that sign. I am up early for kids and work and stay up very late (past midnight). I have only heard music from passing cars. And I can’t say that is has ever done anything to ruin my life, sleep or going on in my house.
I’ve lived in NYC, Detroit and LA and was happy to have the peace and quiet of Church Hill to come home to every night with the benefit of still living in a diverse city environment. So what if the occasional car drives by pumping music? It may not be my thing, but it’s over in two seconds and life goes on. There are much bigger problems in the world. Generally we look at each other, roll our eyes and laugh about it.
Anyway, as a resident of that block I just wanted to say that I have never even noticed this enough to complain about it.
@ 33, I must agree. I’ve lived in Vegas, DC & Philly. The lower part of CH is quaint and quiet in comparison to a REAL city. Yea, there’s an obnoxious bass thumping now or then and a gunshot here or there, break-ins and even murders north of Fairmount (where most of the gentrifiers couldn’t even find without a gps). But people get shot at at Dave & Buster’s in Short Pump, abducted from the Willow Lawn area Target parking lot, executed in their beds by wackyass goth kids in Farmville and MFs beat/abuse their wives & children in Bon Air.
“Grow up!” to all the whiners. The neighborhood isn’t perfect (yet on the mend). Crime happens everywhere. Paranoia seems to however be flourishing amongst the people who want CH to be the new perfect safe utopian urban escapist’s dreamworld. Some of these folks seem to want their cake and everyone else’s too.
Things aren’t all that bad. If the folks outside your house are blaring Lil’ Wayne, or Wayne Newton, or Nickleback, or whatever shit that some folks listen to and you don’t like it… call the cops. I’ve done so a few times when I felt bombarded by sounds (including people below or next door screaming and fighting) and the men in blue have always shown up. Otherwise, invest in a $3 pair of earplugs.
Also, James, I think that statements like “Personally, I don’t care that much, as I don’t have high expectations for the youth of richmond. However, I think people have a right to complain about the noise.” Are what are wrong with the world.
Let’s just give up hope for all the youth of the city and make broad sweeping generalizations. I bet you didn’t do anything adults didn’t like when you were a kid.
I live near the subject intersection. I hear bass from inside me home every single day. It is annoying after a long day at work, but to be completely honest, emergency response vehicles are far more disturbing than bass.
Yes, bass is annoying and drivers should be more courteous when passing through a predominantly residential area but I can live with it.
#31 “why does anyone live in an urban environment when they are bothered by noise?” So if you like living in a place that’s quiet in the evenings and night when you’re home, your only option is the suburbs? Cities and urban areas can still have more residential type areas that are quieter. All that being said, Church Hill is SO QUIET compared to other parts of the city. Really quiet, I think it’s quite peaceful here.
#35
“Let’s just give up hope for all the youth of the city and make broad sweeping generalizations. I bet you didn’t do anything adults didn’t like when you were a kid.”
Teenagers in the East End (mostly in the courts) may have some glimmer of hope, but I still don’t expect much from them. The parents are non-existent most of the time, which leads to the kids growing up breaking the law. If all they do is blast their stereos, then I feel that it isn’t so bad. It doesn’t bother me that much. However, I think people are being assholes if they give their neighbors a hard time for complaining. If the bass bothers you, then you have a right to complain. Call the police, get the cars ticketed.
A dude once said, “Dis Church Hill Not Beverly Hill.”
There are much bigger fish to fry. As noise goes at least ya’ll only have to deal with Rick Ross talk-rappin’ and a few scooter and moped nerds. At least you don’t have these folks 20 deep making passes in front of your house. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1457073935/twelve-oclock-in-baltimore
I’m sure you don’t a single one of those kids growing up in the “projects” and have no idea what their parents are doing to get them out. Please don’t pretend to know my children or what they go through or deal with. Do some get stuck in a cycle of poverty and violence? Yes, but many are making real strides to get out…
I don’t think anyone is being an “asshole” as you put it. Just wishing our whining ass neighbors would let the cops in our neighborhood tend to the real issues…not music.
“I don’t think anyone is being an “asshole” as you put it. Just wishing our whining ass neighbors would let the cops in our neighborhood tend to the real issues…not music.”
Just like you to think breaking the law doesn’t matter, since the people may have come from a less fortunate background. Keep on being the apologist.
I do have one thing to say, very frankly, to anyone (especially a newbie and/or some gentrifier) who says anything negative/degrading/upholding stereotypes about the kids who live in this heighborhood (and I’m not talking about the privileged kids who get sent to private school)….
I won’t get into stereotypes but can we talk about the statistics? Ignoring the causes completely, the numbers do support James’ claim. Is anyone denying that?
We can disagree all day about why that is and how to fix but denying statistics makes you less credible.
What about the people from the suburbs who who move to to church Hill and 9x out of 10 usually buy drugs from these guys, so keep in mind when cars are constantly in your neighborhood with the system thumping & your neighbors wife all of a sudden walks the dog at 2am all the time means she’s a junky and the real problem…Also we have a lot of DL crack heads here on this blog and in the neighborhood and who doesn’t go to the hood to score they call some geek they know who’s also probably a junky with a degree but subject’s there self to selling crack pointing the finger the opposite way!!!!
#47 showing your ignorance again. Only white people can be racist, right? And your comment shows why I have no respect for you or your one sided opinions.
Guess that what happens when you live in Richmond. Im sure there is not much anyone can do :(. The Police have better issues to deal with, which makes sense. I think posting these signs makes will only encourage these fools to continue.
Sum 1 told me bout this blog an I jus wanna say that Ill play my music as loud as i want you want to call the POlice go a head They been to my place before it aint no thang yall be bichin bout my music why dont you get yurselfs sum lifes and not by cryin bout stupid stit when it aint important to noone. hatas gon hate i gess.
I think much of the noise is coming from 2 or 3 cars. I saw a white Yukon the other day that about made me deaf. Also an older Blue Volvo was not playing music loud but was yelling very loudly out the window a few nights ago…any suggestions?? Hope this helps. Other than that i work night shifts at Walmart, so I dont see or hear as much
CBD, thanks for providing the idiot perspective. You ever heard about the concept of respect for others? You have a a right to do whatever you want but at the point when it starts to infringe on others’ rights, you need to have respect for ther rights. When you grow up and get some maturity perhaps you will understand.
If it sounds like I’m being a grump it’s because some of us have to work in the morning so we can for all the rest of your housing and food. Play your music too loud, we don’t sleep, we get fired for being tired and no free lunches for you.
Also, to just a neighbor and all the other apologists, cbd’s comments are exactly why a lot of us find it hard to believe that all the folks who are receiving handouts are in that spot because of racism, education or whatever you blame it on. Some of it is due to their shitty, immature attitudes and lack of respect for mature values. Next time you try to tell me it’s not their fault, please explain this one for me.
I agree with Alex. It’s sad to see James leave this neighborhood. We need more people like James… hardworking, respectful, considerate of others… Though I have to say, I don’t blame him. The disrespect runs rabid and the percentage of people making excuses for the disrespect is beyond reason, and teaches no one any common sense or self pride.
All good points Alex. It’s so easy to get frustrated with the disrespect of other’s when you read CBD’s post. What does ‘hatas gon hat’ even mean? And his spelling and grammar is just horrendous. So so sad
@Vince, I don’t know about your ornery blue volvo driver but let me tell you, my ex-wife drove a blue volvo and she was crazy as all get out. Must be something about blue volvo’s and losing your mind! Stay away from them!
U kno what Im sayin, I aint bout to go callin peeple out for talkin down to me an shet. Im juss tellin you all that I play my music how i do, so it aint about geting into drama. Yo but for reel yo, vince right. Ther some blue volvo be drivin like a dam fool. i told my shortie to watch out wen that volve come by, be drivin like they wasted.
hey mr and mrs alex. cowardly racists are nothing new in this neighborhood but you two self satisfied geeks abuse the privilige. somewhere a gated community is missing two scared hateful residents. see ya ,definitely wouldNOT wanna be ya. again, all your mock outrage is wasted when you dont have the integrity to divulge your bonafides while you wax on with your snarky witless generalizations. sounds like a match made in heaven!please dont breed.
In fact, James, if you do any study of sociology you will find in fact that racism is a power system and only this with power can be racist. Of course, others can be prejudice, but their dislike of you and other whites can not systemically oppress you.
Second, Alex, have you ever worked in a Richmond city school? You call these kids ignorant…you judge them because they don’t conform to your bougie ideals, yet it does not disqualify them from deserving respect. Do you think those of us who teach these youth allow disrespect? Of course not, but we are up against factors beyond our control. No one is apologizing. You all who hide in your ivory towers are so quick to judge but you make no effort to right the injustices of our past. When was the last time someone came to you and paternalistically told you how ignorant you were and tried to get you to change? Probably never and if they did you would be right to be indignant. So why is it okay for the likes of you and James…clearly
white males who have privilege whether acknowledged or not…to tell people what is proper?
Until you work for change, you are just in the way…
Just, you couldn’t be more wrong about your assumptions about what I’ve been through. Just because I didn’t come out with a perspective that matches yours doesn’t mean I haven’t seen shitty situations. I just took the hard truths as a sign I needed to get my ass in gear, not have someone make excuses for me.
Have you ever lived in your car? And I’m not talking about sleeping there for a night on your way home from Lilith festival in ’02 or while you were driving back to whatever fancy liberal college filled your head with shit. I mean honest to God had everything you own in a piece of shit 1972 Volvo you bought for a hundred bucks? And that’s the tip of the iceberg.
I’ve been through some shit in my life but took my problems as my responsibility to fix. I have little sympathy for others who can’t do the same. I’m not saying we give up on folks. I’m not saying we call them bad folks. I’m saying we stop lying and saying things are good when they aren’t good enough. It’s because I had people telling me I was a fuck up that I was able to turn around. If I’d had enough feel good liars like you to help me blame others, I’d be in Mosby now with a couple bastard kids of my own.
No I haven’t been an RPS teacher but I’ve got family who teach in much worse hellholes. I’ve lived on the streets and been to jail a few times. I’ve actually been down and out. Have you or have you just read about it?
By the way, just if you can show me where I called any kid ignorant I would be glad to apologize. Just so it’s crystal clear – I don’t believe project kids are any less naturally intelligent. I do know that the numbers show that they achieve less. That’s not their fault. If I ever said anything different, please tell me where so I can apologize. If you read more into what I said, shame on you.
@#61
“In fact, James, if you do any study of sociology you will find in fact that racism is a power system and only this with power can be racist. Of course, others can be prejudice, but their dislike of you and other whites can not systemically oppress you.”
Wow. There really is no hope for you. Racist bigot.
No James… “prejudiced bigot.” It’s a matter of semantics.
(Although one would argue that even if this definition is correct, it would imply that we shouldn’t let folks harboring prejudice acquire power because then they would become truly racist.)
Wow this really turned into an ugly battle of name calling and assumptions, and quite frankly there are no winners just people making complete idiots out of themselved online…….I was under the assumption that Church Hill was a place of diversity and had a sense of community….and to have a quality of life that is appealing to each individual not just one group or a few individuals who think they are right….is the loud music offensive?? probably..is the loud music something you can overlook…probably….is calling each other rascist and complainging not only ugly but stupid..probably…come on…you want peace and a sense of community and an ablity to just ask…can you lower your music??? is that the right thing to do…probably…
maybe just being nice might work..what do you think???
James….have you taken to the name calling you so often criticize? tsk tsk. Aren’t you just as “obstinate and intolerant” of others’ opinions? I seem to have hit a nerve. Ouch!
Beside the point…am I a racist because I don’t like you? Meaning, I don’t like white people? Are you assuming I am not white? Or just believe I don’t like my own race? Or am I a racist because it is hard for you to accept that despite your trials and tribulations, you have in some way benefited from your skin color? Too close to home?
Great read on the privilege we experience even without realizing….
Sad that we can’t have conversations on this blog regarding poverty and race without paternalistic and condescending remarks from the peanut gallery. But as it has been pointed out, it is a free public website where all are free to post.
Let me clarify though, the reality is I don’t like ignorance. And it is often abound on this blog.
Folks continually make assumptions that it is just easy as pie to pick yourself up by your book straps and make a better life. You two always use your past as a way to prove that your scenario is true. It simply IS NOT that easy. There is a vicious cycle of poverty and racism in this country that keeps people (and profits from keeping people) in poverty. But I’m also not here to compare our personal oppressions, Alex, so I won’t get into the pissing contest with you about who had a harder life. It is a stupid way to try and prove you have a leg to stand on in this conversation. Remove the personal from the conversation (as I have tried to do…notice, you know little of my personal life, besides my profession) and talk in group dynamics or institutional dynamics. THEN we can have a conversation about race and poverty.
Also, Alex…you are quick to jump on others making assumptions, but you made multiple about me in your post. One, you assume I am female. Two, you assume I went to “fancy liberal college.” Would you respect me more if you knew I went to Liberty?
My point is not to put you down or criticize you. Like you, I once refused to recognize the privilege bestowed on me for being white and the ways in which my silence on the issue of racism perpetuated the institutionalized racism present in our society.
Read the article above. Please. I’m not calling you a racist, I’m saying you don’t get it. Your perceptions and judgements of people are based on racialized stereotypes of PEOPLE…HUMAN BEINGS…who are in reality, your neighbors. It doesn’t make me an apologist or a liberal to care about other HUMANS. What it does make me is compassionate.
Until us “white folks” recognize the ugly history of racism in this country, the system won’t stop oppressing. It isn’t for lack of want that African Americans continue to be stuck in poverty in large number. Shit, this country was built on the backs of blacks. It wasn’t the fat lazy white dudes working the fields. We prefer, though, to live with our inherent prejudices about people…passed down from generation to generation. We learn these beliefs. We assume they are true. You talk in “facts” about people abusing the system and staying in poverty with their “bastard” kids (just wow….low blow. Judge other much?) but I’ve yet to see a statistic or study who backs your hatred. I’m happy to cite much of my opinion from books and journal studies, if you are interested. If you would actually take the time to read them.
Besides that, I clearly am beating my head on a brick wall. Neither of you want to see the other side because it would require you to give up power.
Continue patting yourselves on the back about how great you are and what an asset you are to the community while the rest of us work for change.
The “assumptions” I made about you were meant tongue in cheek, probably should have been more clear on that. I have no idea who you are and it’s honestly irrelevant to me. I’d rather keep this a discussion on ideas anyway and leave the personal side out of it. How about we just leave any assumptions about others out from now on. You clearly don’t know me and I don’t claim to know you.
The article you linked is actually very rational and raises some good points. I’m not so wedded to an ideology that I can’t admit that. In fact I would wholeheartedly endorse any actions that were made to correct these wrongs.
My problem is that you are often extending this to cover stuff that is quite frankly just bad behavior. I’m with you 100% on fighting prejudice in our culture. You lose me when you start to give blanket apologies for poor decisions that some members of our community make. This is in part because it’s a starting point for a reverse prejudice system if we go far enough down the slope (I want equality, not for one group to be treated unfairly) and partly because I think it discourages folks from aspiring to achieve more (the soft racism of low expectations).
I would also be happy to share plenty of references with you as well but I think it’s fair to say that there’s plenty of material on both sides from academically respected sources.
Just because you haven’t been listening to any that you find disagreeable doesn’t mean they aren’t there. I won’t claim that quoting a paper or two will make my point any more valid, just wanted to point out that this is hardly a settled matter.
Also, since personal examples don’t seem to work for you, and as per your request:
“talk in group dynamics or institutional dynamics. THEN we can have a conversation about race and poverty.”
Let’s try this:
Would you say that illegitimate births (i.e. “bastards” as I so judgingly, but literally correctly labeled them earlier) have a fairly severe negative impact on poor, particularly African Americans, communities?
And finally, just to finish my response to all the points you raised in your essay/post, if you told me you went to Liberty it wouldn’t make any difference in my perception of you. (Though I will admit your political view would have been in the minority there)
James…Why still post on a community blog to which you have no tie?
You moved. Find the suburban blog for your new community.
As for Alex’s thoughtful and much appreciated response devoid of personal experience…
I would agree with the article and argue that without knowing me you can’t possibly say that I an making excuses. While I find no issue with loud music, I often play mine quite loud, my issue on this blog often lies with the over generalizations made about people living in poverty. More then once, someone has referred to black people as thugs, criminals and ghetto. (i say black because that is the vast majority of those in poverty on the hill.) All are unacceptable.
I have a problem with placing your class values on to anyone. I have three “bastard” children and we are firmly middle class. We didn’t marry because we are not religious.
But I do agree that we have to set the standards higher for our youth. Change the expectations on education, on behaviour. I work with my kids on this all the time. People assume this an easy fix. “why don’t they just stop…insert xyz…”
In reality, we all can be loud at times, all curse on occasion, all do all the things we stereotype black people as doing. Culturally, we have our own misgivings, that likely bother others around us. Why can we not accept and be tolerant of differences? You know, the ones that don’t infringe on our own rights. Why do we judge people by what they wear, or their hair, or the volume of their music?
I’m not saying dismiss teen pregnancy, violence, or crime. Let’s work proactively to educate our children away from those behaviours, instead of judging reactively. Which is all that appears to happen on this blog. This becomes a place to complain about the problem but rarely a solution is proposed.
So here is a suggestion…get involved with the people through one of the many community efforts…list forthcoming
And Alex…my last comment was not directed at you as an individual but all the complainers who aren’t working towards sustainable change in our communities.
If there are people who want to get involved, check out this site:
You can search our city and then the different organizations.
In Church Hill and the area, there is CHAT, Higher Achievement (At Henderson Middle and Boushall) needs mentors last I heard, also the Communities in Schools programs are always looking for volunteers for tutoring and mentors.
The is also AMP in schools if you work for one of the following businesses (see link for business partners):
Good points and I think we are finding a lot of common ground. I know we’ll never see 100% eye to eye but I respect that. A few minor quibbles with your post though:
1. One of my beefs with you in the past has been that you automatically assume racist intents whenever people use the word “thug.” I wish you would realize that there are such things in our midst and by squelching any discussion about how to deal with the problem, you may be making it worse. I realize the label is insensitive to some and many do stereotype. I think it’s fair to ask that people are more sensitive in how they judge others and not to rush to judgment. The same should apply before we assume our neighbors are racist also. Granted their language may not be PC but if you don’t know the situation it seems a little to silly assume they are wrong.
2. Religion aside, kids are better with two adults in their life. I don’t care about the legal status of people’s kids but I would hope that folks think twice before bringing kids into this world with a handicap of not having the same support that others do. If they don’t, it’s the parent who is to blame, not society. That said, I know it’s our duty as a caring society not to abandon someone because of the poor choices of their parents. If your children have two or more supporting adults in their life, I don’t think it matters what the law says. If not, you are being selfish in my opinion.
I think because of the racial stereotypes associated with the word “thug” it is better not used, especially since you don’t the intent or the actions of the person, especially when simply talking about someone who is just standing on a corner or at a market. Assuming they are doing something more then loitering usually comes from a place of fear…based on said stereotypes/racially driven ideas gotten from media or from the things we hear growing up.
If you “suspect” illegals behaviors, fine, but can we do so with out the words that are hurtful and hateful?
I mean, I know for a fact the people across the street are selling drugs. I know so because I know someone in the police department who said they are on their radar. I still would refrain from using that language. Are they criminals. Sure. If a white person is selling drugs, I don’t call them thugs. I call them dealers. There lies our point of contention.
2. I know a lot of families that are lead by single mothers and fathers and are doing a kick ass job of raising their kids. Where do we draw the line in judging single parents? Is it okay to judge them if they choose to have kids alone? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse left? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse died? Once step further, do we judge wealthy people who have kids alone? Or just poor people?
Otherwise, I’m glad you and I can have a civil debate! Kudos to us both!
@#74
“James…Why still post on a community blog to which you have no tie?
You moved. Find the suburban blog for your new community.’
Oh, get over yourself. I still live in the city. My new home doesn’t have the risk of violence or robbery as much as my home in CH, but I am still very much in the city. It is also a free country. If you have a problem with my posts, please direct your complaints to someone who cares. I would still love to see Church Hill improve, and part of that includes staying in touch with the community through news sources. Also, as I keep stating, I still have friends in CH.
1. “If you “suspect” illegals behaviors, fine, but can we do so with out the words that are hurtful and hateful?”
I’d go so far as to say I won’t call anyone a thug unless I actually see proof that they are. Someone yelling obscenities at women passing by, taking hits off a blunt in broad daylight, buying drugs in front of me, etc. I realize others may not be so generous but I agree it’s best not to make assumptions that may be unfair based on appearance.
If I agree not to call anyone a “thug” without knowing for sure that they’ve done something to deserve it, can you agree not to accuse your neighbors of being “racists” unless you have some real proof they are? Those words are just as hurtful and hateful. Overusing them can also cheapen real racism when it occurs.
2. “I know a lot of families that are lead by single mothers and fathers and are doing a kick ass job of raising their kids. Where do we draw the line in judging single parents? Is it okay to judge them if they choose to have kids alone? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse left? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse died? Once step further, do we judge wealthy people who have kids alone? Or just poor people?”
My point is not that there aren’t situations where a single parent can be a good parent. I know that is true. My point is that children are more likely to succeed in school and life with two parents and the statistics back this up (surely you know these stats as well as I do, but I would be glad to show support if you’d like).
Once it’s happened or if there’s no way of keeping a healthy environment because the parents hate each other, there’s really nothing to be gained by judging. I do think we should invest more in preventing this instead of acting like it’s perfectly normal behavior. Why would someone willingly start their child off with a handicap?
This is true whatever the person’s socio-economic station may be. I’m not so much calling for us to be judgmental about the cases where it has happened as I am asking for us to be honest about the fact that it’s less than ideal for the kids and be judgmental about the general trend being a negative one for society.
When numbers show a clear pattern, we need to be honest even if the implications are uncomfortable to some, not point to the exceptions and wish it away. It may be upsetting to some but I’d rather upset some adults than condemn a child to a disadvantaged start.
Just, you are an annoyance, but there is no way you can get under my skin. You better stick to your one-sided viewpoints. It really paints a nice picture of you.
Alex…..I think we have come to as much as an agreement as we are going to get to and it is pretty darn close.
I can agree to all your points!
Not you, personally…but I think “most” people, in the discussion of single parents, we do tend to judge along class lines…which is where my point lies.
I think you are right that childern are always better when they have a “community” of people to support them in what ever form that takes. I think a child with a single mother, but a super supportive extended family can be just as good as a two parent household.
If it makes you feel any better, I cringe whenever I see some rich celebrity who I know will be divorced 5x within the child’s first few years and will be leaving the kid with a nanny 90% of the time popping out a baby. Money has nothing to do with parenting ability. Where most single parents come up short is in not having time to spend with the kids.
I live at the stop sign on 32nd and Broad and I listen to huge trucks and absolutely deafening traffic noise all day long. I hear all sorts of cars blasting music (and yes we run the gamut from the Beatles to Beyonce), not to mention those yelling up and down the street at each other, my personal favorite. Passersby throw chicken bones and trash, and let their dogs crap in the middle of the sidewalk DAILY. Do you think I’m really going to bother the Police with any of that?!? Of course not. It’s ridiculous. We live in the city and they have bigger fish to fry. Deal with it- I do.
It’s enough to make me nostalgic for the lost dog posts.
Yall be talkin bout me and my bisness for days and I juss wanna set the record straight for reel. First a all, I aint even say I black. Who the racist now? Second, you all be biching bout stuff sayin like you know everything linking all those fancy science papers an all, but yall be actin juss as racist as any one else. Nieghbor, you tryin to stick up fo me like I cant handle my own bisness, like I stupid a shit. I don’t write all smart so you got to come down on me and start talkin bout how I don’t know no better and shit? You be sayin people sholdnt get all judging an shit, then you say Richmond school be garbage? I aint go to school in Richmond. Then you be tellin that alex fool not to be callin people thug cuz that racist. You racist just sayin that shit. When alex say thug, you think black man? That’s fukked up. Alex can say whatever shitt he want, alex can be hatin on us, so I play my music loud, we both sayin fuk you to each otha, but we aint cryin bout it. This America, you wanna cry for people, move your ass to france or some shit.
And James, you can walk yur suburban ass back to yo white bread cookie houses, we aint give a shit bout what some pusy that move away think no more.
Hahaha! Right. My suburban ass? I moved from Chicago, Mr. internet tough guy. Spend a few years in central Logan Square and see what a real city is like (Richmond feels more like a Chicago suburb). Besides, I still live in Richmond City, but I live in a better part now. I even have grocery stores within a short walk.
I do agree with you about the term thug. I have seen plenty of white and latino thugs in my lifetime, so I never thought the word was related to a specific race.
You know, I hesitate to point out the obvious here.
@cbd…you are clearly ASSuming my race, as you believe that I am speaking for YOU. What if I am black and speaking for myself? Am I not then entitled to challenge the beliefs about my own race? Or do you assume I am white because I quote “fancy science papers” and because I “write all smart”. Can I be black and do those things or are those only reserved for “white people”?
j.a.n., not to stir the pot but I don’t think anyone is ASSuming anything about you from your posting of links to academic studies. Your earlier posts clear state you are white (unless you were imagining yourself to be white when you wrote them, which would be pretty sad).
Quotes yours, bold mine:
“Great read on the privilege we experience even without realizing….” (unless that article was referring to black privilege… which wasn’t how it sounded to me)
“Until us “white folks” recognize the ugly history of racism in this country, the system won’t stop oppressing.”
“Like you, I once refused to recognize the privilege bestowed on me for being white”
This thread is twisted enough without a white poster accusing someone of being a racist for stereotyping them as being a white person. Or someone who can’t quite keep straight what they are claiming to be now spending time correcting folks who are simply assuming they can take them at their word.
All that said, I think your race is quite frankly irrelevant and only point this out in an attempt to cut this ridiculous tangent short. Nobody’s assuming anything about your from stereotypes when you basically said that you were white about 10 posts ago.
#89 JD, I wonder the same thing. Agree with you completely.
What I would like to see right now is a post from Coco, who supposedly was in business for herself (well, okay, maybe she had a pimp) and was using an abandoned house on Mosby Street that was about to go through renovation, thus removing her place of business from her. Now, that was humor, and it lightened things up nicely…Coco, where are you now? I know the house was fully renovated, and they trashed your mattress, but surely you didn’t go far?
And (while I’m at it) whatever happened to Joe Richmond, with whom I was supposed to have a date when we had several threads that exceeded 100 posts about the proposed baseball stadium in the bottom?
This thread is quite possibly one the absolute worst things I have ever seen on the internet. Mods, can you just close it and put it out of it’s misery?
I need to put that sign up in front of the Blue Wheeler. And one of those “no cursing” signs like they have in VA Beach. If only law enforcement felt the same way.
Lucky Dog…have you been calling the police when these thing occur? Have you called the Mayor to have a chat with him about the problems that you’re experiencing? The only way to get these things changed is to call…call…call and be vigilant about it. If you make your voice heard at City Hall…they eventually will listen.
I think you mentioned in one of your prior posts that you didn’t consider the Blue Wheeler a cancer in the neighborhood. I may be mistaken but that perplexing to me.
Yeah, no cursing! Policing speech is rad!
Just curious – is this complaint over music from moving cars or stationary source?
Me too. I just may do this. Email our police lieutenant in charge of our sector. I have many times regarding noise violations from music. I don’t get a solid answer. I emailed recently since the new noise ordinance was passed asking if they would enforce this and I got no response. The more people complain, the better chance we have.
A sign might work. But it’s so much more fun to walk up to the thumping car blasting “yo mo-f–kers, b–ch” and ask’em to turn down the volume.
Yeah its so annoying!!!!!!!!! Its always getto people! Not everyone wants to hear your stupid music!!!!!!!!! God yall ruin everything…
This very much belongs on http://www.passiveaggressivenotes.com/.
From now on im going to blast 92.1 whenever im stopped at this intersection
i hope we classify (ghetto) as people and not one race and for anon the correct spelling isn”t getto asshole it’s ghetto,but if were talking about african american your even a bigger assholes, what does anyone has to say about the irish bands that live in the nieghborhood and cause a lot of noise or the hippies that group up in the porches on 23rd and jefferson so when we say ghetto make sure you include whites in that ghetto convo,and you know what dont listen to the bullshit about knocking on someone window fussing or cursing because they might just feel threatend and blow your heade the fuck off, lets be serious its the city life not the fucking county HELLLO!!!!!!
I’ve called the police, sent emails (copying the mayor), called the BW directly, and complained to anyone who will listen. By the time the police respond to a noise/drinking in public/panhandling/etc. complaint, the source is long gone.
I stand by my statement that the BW is not a “cancer” on our neighborhood. The owners will meet requirements, laws, etc. Their standards are low because the city of Richmond has set a low standard, IMHO.
The noise that I am complaining about is from cars parked and left running in front of the BW while the occupants run into the store or stand on the sidewalk to converse. I can curse with the best of them but I don’t use curse words as adjectives, nouns, verbs, etc. It wears on you after a while when every other word you hear from overly loud conversations is “fuck”. Again, IMO.
I don’t normally respond to juvenile comments like the one written by #9, but that has to be about the most snot nosed immature comment in a while. You may also want to remember that their is a noise ordinance and you never know when an officer may be sitting at the intersection just waiting for you, and others with the same attitude as you.
Like so many of the other issues in the area, this one falls under having some common courtesy for fellow neighbors. It actually takes effort to not have any. Let’s keep hope alive though.
OK, so I’ve been out of town for the better part of two weeks and just saw this thread – where is this sign? I would appreciate it if someone would clue me in, thanks.
kind of looks like right at Broad and 25th, by the ice cream place, no?
Information on the noise ordinance background is here:
http://cityhallreview.com/category/subject/noise/
A summary of council member statements is here:
http://cityhallreview.com/2011/09/21/review-samuels-tyler-nose-ordinances/
I would also like to know who it is that is patrolling the neighborhood on an incredibly loud motorcycle in the wee hours of the morning. Up and down and up and down the streets? Besides being annoyed (and awake,) I am just plain curious as to why this person doesn’t have anything better to do with their time……
Church Hill has got to be the most complaining community ever.
#15 neighbor – yes, it certainly does look like that corner – thanks for posting that, I recognize it now. The awning would be for the ice cream place, so if that’s the corner then the photo was taken looking east. Unless the ice cream parlor is suddently having music (which I don’t believe they have a license for), then I have to assume the complaining sign is regarding vehicle noise driving by. I live quite near there, and the only noise I hear is occasional passing vehicle noise with loud thumping bass.
Many of the older homes in CH have single pane windows, which allows for you to hear almost every noise as plain as day. Granted, I like music just like many other people but the difference is I think of my fellow neighbor before blasting my music aloud. What if I love Led Zeppelin but my next door neighbor likes classical? I can bet they don’t want to hear my music.
I understand it is a city, but darn it— CH is not a city center. CH is a residential community with a few small local businesses.
It would be nice if everyone, I mean EVERYONE, would have a little more respect for not only their neighbor, but themselves too. Honestly, blasting your music very loud (all kinds) is extremely annoying, especially if every other word is explicit. I don’t want to hear about “that chick’s bill-o-heath or what she got from that m-f” hip-hop or “death to all – f-u” metal. Really—I don’t even want to hear Beethoven blasting either, soothing but still disruptive.
Come on now—you blasting your music so loud that my organs rattle does NOT help build you much rapport with your fellow neighbors.
Let’s all pull up our big-boy panties and learn to respect others who share the same environment.
#18 church hill is the new west end
@20. Well said
OK, I have now seen the sign, and to #15 (just a neighbor) yes it is most definitely at 25th and Broad Streets on the pole on the SE corner, visible if you are coming east on Broad. There is actually another sign, or there was until all this rain may have washed both of them away. The other one is visible if you are coming up (north) on 25th Street, it’s on the same pole other side, and says “This intersection is around businesses and HOMES. Turn your music DOWN, we want to sleep!”
The corner has ModelLogix as a business but there are apartments up top, all the way down over several buildings, so I think someone in one (or more) of those apartments/homes has had to put up with cars blasting loud boom-boom music, hence the sign.
#4 Magneto, from what I’ve seen of the signs, I would guess that it is coming from moving cars at the intersection of 25th and Broad.
@18…I could NOT agree more.
Which takes me to another post where someone said I wasn’t being constructive.
I’m all out of constructive with this community. Negative negative negative. I can’t find any more energy to come on here, sadly.
This blog makes our neighborhood sound like a bunch of curmudgeons…or worst…
Seems to me, that there are two basic types living in churh Hill…the “newbies” the ones that are forever “improving” the “hood” and the “locals” the ones that have been here for generatons…it’s quite obvious that most of the “locals” probably don’t frequent this web site.
Perhaps a bit of “getting over yourselves” is in order here, or better yet moving.
@#17: One of them is a guy on a ruckus scooter. Not to call out the specific address, but he’s on Glenwood Ave. Call the police when he does it. Between that and the dog he lets roam the street and chase folks, he is driving me insane.
The sign is to small.. it needs to be the size of a billboard.. & place all around.
#25, if it weren’t for the “newbies,” this area would still be the shithole it was in the 90′s.
By the way, my neighbors have been here longer than most of the people blasting their car subwoofers have been alive. I guess their complaints aren’t valid either. Personally, I don’t care that much, as I don’t have high expectations for the youth of richmond. However, I think people have a right to complain about the noise.
Agreed James! And gsr, I’ve been here for 8 years and have finally decided to move. Good luck with your neighborhood. If only all the other newbies would move and let the neighborhood return to what it once was.
#28-James: Well said.
I guess I’m considered to be a “newbie”. I’ve lived in CH for a little over 4 years. I am not going to “get over myself”, whatever that might mean. And I’m not moving.
#28 why does anyone live in an urban environment when they are bothered by noise? and to #21 and #18 Amen to that, you got it right! Maybe my point is, that people need to remember and be respectful of everyone, not just the people that fit their tiny molds of being “ok”. I hear people in here complaining of “ugly” eye sores etc…if you want homogenized/cookie cutter move to the suburbs!
gsr, Your post makes absolutely no sense. Let’s not act like cranking the bass up in your car stereo is some right or privilege. It is a noise violation, and technically the police (if they had the time) could ticket you for it. Please stop talking about this like it is normal urban noise. I lived in downtown Chicago for 3 years (you know, a real city) and never heard as much house rattling bass as I hear in CH. Like I said, I can understand why people are complaining.
So, I live on 25th. Just around the corner from that sign. I am up early for kids and work and stay up very late (past midnight). I have only heard music from passing cars. And I can’t say that is has ever done anything to ruin my life, sleep or going on in my house.
I’ve lived in NYC, Detroit and LA and was happy to have the peace and quiet of Church Hill to come home to every night with the benefit of still living in a diverse city environment. So what if the occasional car drives by pumping music? It may not be my thing, but it’s over in two seconds and life goes on. There are much bigger problems in the world. Generally we look at each other, roll our eyes and laugh about it.
Anyway, as a resident of that block I just wanted to say that I have never even noticed this enough to complain about it.
@ 33, I must agree. I’ve lived in Vegas, DC & Philly. The lower part of CH is quaint and quiet in comparison to a REAL city. Yea, there’s an obnoxious bass thumping now or then and a gunshot here or there, break-ins and even murders north of Fairmount (where most of the gentrifiers couldn’t even find without a gps). But people get shot at at Dave & Buster’s in Short Pump, abducted from the Willow Lawn area Target parking lot, executed in their beds by wackyass goth kids in Farmville and MFs beat/abuse their wives & children in Bon Air.
“Grow up!” to all the whiners. The neighborhood isn’t perfect (yet on the mend). Crime happens everywhere. Paranoia seems to however be flourishing amongst the people who want CH to be the new perfect safe utopian urban escapist’s dreamworld. Some of these folks seem to want their cake and everyone else’s too.
Things aren’t all that bad. If the folks outside your house are blaring Lil’ Wayne, or Wayne Newton, or Nickleback, or whatever shit that some folks listen to and you don’t like it… call the cops. I’ve done so a few times when I felt bombarded by sounds (including people below or next door screaming and fighting) and the men in blue have always shown up. Otherwise, invest in a $3 pair of earplugs.
Also, James, I think that statements like “Personally, I don’t care that much, as I don’t have high expectations for the youth of richmond. However, I think people have a right to complain about the noise.” Are what are wrong with the world.
Let’s just give up hope for all the youth of the city and make broad sweeping generalizations. I bet you didn’t do anything adults didn’t like when you were a kid.
I live near the subject intersection. I hear bass from inside me home every single day. It is annoying after a long day at work, but to be completely honest, emergency response vehicles are far more disturbing than bass.
Yes, bass is annoying and drivers should be more courteous when passing through a predominantly residential area but I can live with it.
#31 “why does anyone live in an urban environment when they are bothered by noise?” So if you like living in a place that’s quiet in the evenings and night when you’re home, your only option is the suburbs? Cities and urban areas can still have more residential type areas that are quieter. All that being said, Church Hill is SO QUIET compared to other parts of the city. Really quiet, I think it’s quite peaceful here.
#35
“Let’s just give up hope for all the youth of the city and make broad sweeping generalizations. I bet you didn’t do anything adults didn’t like when you were a kid.”
Teenagers in the East End (mostly in the courts) may have some glimmer of hope, but I still don’t expect much from them. The parents are non-existent most of the time, which leads to the kids growing up breaking the law. If all they do is blast their stereos, then I feel that it isn’t so bad. It doesn’t bother me that much. However, I think people are being assholes if they give their neighbors a hard time for complaining. If the bass bothers you, then you have a right to complain. Call the police, get the cars ticketed.
A dude once said, “Dis Church Hill Not Beverly Hill.”
There are much bigger fish to fry. As noise goes at least ya’ll only have to deal with Rick Ross talk-rappin’ and a few scooter and moped nerds. At least you don’t have these folks 20 deep making passes in front of your house. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1457073935/twelve-oclock-in-baltimore
I’m sure you don’t a single one of those kids growing up in the “projects” and have no idea what their parents are doing to get them out. Please don’t pretend to know my children or what they go through or deal with. Do some get stuck in a cycle of poverty and violence? Yes, but many are making real strides to get out…
I don’t think anyone is being an “asshole” as you put it. Just wishing our whining ass neighbors would let the cops in our neighborhood tend to the real issues…not music.
“I don’t think anyone is being an “asshole” as you put it. Just wishing our whining ass neighbors would let the cops in our neighborhood tend to the real issues…not music.”
Just like you to think breaking the law doesn’t matter, since the people may have come from a less fortunate background. Keep on being the apologist.
I do have one thing to say, very frankly, to anyone (especially a newbie and/or some gentrifier) who says anything negative/degrading/upholding stereotypes about the kids who live in this heighborhood (and I’m not talking about the privileged kids who get sent to private school)….
F*** OFF.
You have no idea. Really. You don’t.
I won’t get into stereotypes but can we talk about the statistics? Ignoring the causes completely, the numbers do support James’ claim. Is anyone denying that?
We can disagree all day about why that is and how to fix but denying statistics makes you less credible.
Alex – not until that start keeping statistics on annoying white people in the hood.
Sounds like we got a stereotyping racist on here. Thanks for your wonderful contribution to the discussion number 44…
That sums it up. #44 verbalized the racism that I have experienced many times in church hill.
bwhahahahahahahaha.
that was a joke, right?
What about the people from the suburbs who who move to to church Hill and 9x out of 10 usually buy drugs from these guys, so keep in mind when cars are constantly in your neighborhood with the system thumping & your neighbors wife all of a sudden walks the dog at 2am all the time means she’s a junky and the real problem…Also we have a lot of DL crack heads here on this blog and in the neighborhood and who doesn’t go to the hood to score they call some geek they know who’s also probably a junky with a degree but subject’s there self to selling crack pointing the finger the opposite way!!!!
#47 showing your ignorance again. Only white people can be racist, right? And your comment shows why I have no respect for you or your one sided opinions.
#48- Someone’s been getting lessons in logic and coherence from Buddy Corbett…
Guess that what happens when you live in Richmond. Im sure there is not much anyone can do :(. The Police have better issues to deal with, which makes sense. I think posting these signs makes will only encourage these fools to continue.
Sum 1 told me bout this blog an I jus wanna say that Ill play my music as loud as i want you want to call the POlice go a head They been to my place before it aint no thang yall be bichin bout my music why dont you get yurselfs sum lifes and not by cryin bout stupid stit when it aint important to noone. hatas gon hate i gess.
I think much of the noise is coming from 2 or 3 cars. I saw a white Yukon the other day that about made me deaf. Also an older Blue Volvo was not playing music loud but was yelling very loudly out the window a few nights ago…any suggestions?? Hope this helps. Other than that i work night shifts at Walmart, so I dont see or hear as much
CBD, thanks for providing the idiot perspective. You ever heard about the concept of respect for others? You have a a right to do whatever you want but at the point when it starts to infringe on others’ rights, you need to have respect for ther rights. When you grow up and get some maturity perhaps you will understand.
If it sounds like I’m being a grump it’s because some of us have to work in the morning so we can for all the rest of your housing and food. Play your music too loud, we don’t sleep, we get fired for being tired and no free lunches for you.
Also, to just a neighbor and all the other apologists, cbd’s comments are exactly why a lot of us find it hard to believe that all the folks who are receiving handouts are in that spot because of racism, education or whatever you blame it on. Some of it is due to their shitty, immature attitudes and lack of respect for mature values. Next time you try to tell me it’s not their fault, please explain this one for me.
I agree with Alex. It’s sad to see James leave this neighborhood. We need more people like James… hardworking, respectful, considerate of others… Though I have to say, I don’t blame him. The disrespect runs rabid and the percentage of people making excuses for the disrespect is beyond reason, and teaches no one any common sense or self pride.
All good points Alex. It’s so easy to get frustrated with the disrespect of other’s when you read CBD’s post. What does ‘hatas gon hat’ even mean? And his spelling and grammar is just horrendous. So so sad
@Vince, I don’t know about your ornery blue volvo driver but let me tell you, my ex-wife drove a blue volvo and she was crazy as all get out. Must be something about blue volvo’s and losing your mind! Stay away from them!
U kno what Im sayin, I aint bout to go callin peeple out for talkin down to me an shet. Im juss tellin you all that I play my music how i do, so it aint about geting into drama. Yo but for reel yo, vince right. Ther some blue volvo be drivin like a dam fool. i told my shortie to watch out wen that volve come by, be drivin like they wasted.
hey mr and mrs alex. cowardly racists are nothing new in this neighborhood but you two self satisfied geeks abuse the privilige. somewhere a gated community is missing two scared hateful residents. see ya ,definitely wouldNOT wanna be ya. again, all your mock outrage is wasted when you dont have the integrity to divulge your bonafides while you wax on with your snarky witless generalizations. sounds like a match made in heaven!please dont breed.
In fact, James, if you do any study of sociology you will find in fact that racism is a power system and only this with power can be racist. Of course, others can be prejudice, but their dislike of you and other whites can not systemically oppress you.
Second, Alex, have you ever worked in a Richmond city school? You call these kids ignorant…you judge them because they don’t conform to your bougie ideals, yet it does not disqualify them from deserving respect. Do you think those of us who teach these youth allow disrespect? Of course not, but we are up against factors beyond our control. No one is apologizing. You all who hide in your ivory towers are so quick to judge but you make no effort to right the injustices of our past. When was the last time someone came to you and paternalistically told you how ignorant you were and tried to get you to change? Probably never and if they did you would be right to be indignant. So why is it okay for the likes of you and James…clearly
white males who have privilege whether acknowledged or not…to tell people what is proper?
Until you work for change, you are just in the way…
Just, you couldn’t be more wrong about your assumptions about what I’ve been through. Just because I didn’t come out with a perspective that matches yours doesn’t mean I haven’t seen shitty situations. I just took the hard truths as a sign I needed to get my ass in gear, not have someone make excuses for me.
Have you ever lived in your car? And I’m not talking about sleeping there for a night on your way home from Lilith festival in ’02 or while you were driving back to whatever fancy liberal college filled your head with shit. I mean honest to God had everything you own in a piece of shit 1972 Volvo you bought for a hundred bucks? And that’s the tip of the iceberg.
I’ve been through some shit in my life but took my problems as my responsibility to fix. I have little sympathy for others who can’t do the same. I’m not saying we give up on folks. I’m not saying we call them bad folks. I’m saying we stop lying and saying things are good when they aren’t good enough. It’s because I had people telling me I was a fuck up that I was able to turn around. If I’d had enough feel good liars like you to help me blame others, I’d be in Mosby now with a couple bastard kids of my own.
No I haven’t been an RPS teacher but I’ve got family who teach in much worse hellholes. I’ve lived on the streets and been to jail a few times. I’ve actually been down and out. Have you or have you just read about it?
Buddy, … and there’s a trailer park waiting for you somewhere…
By the way, just if you can show me where I called any kid ignorant I would be glad to apologize. Just so it’s crystal clear – I don’t believe project kids are any less naturally intelligent. I do know that the numbers show that they achieve less. That’s not their fault. If I ever said anything different, please tell me where so I can apologize. If you read more into what I said, shame on you.
@#61
“In fact, James, if you do any study of sociology you will find in fact that racism is a power system and only this with power can be racist. Of course, others can be prejudice, but their dislike of you and other whites can not systemically oppress you.”
Wow. There really is no hope for you. Racist bigot.
No James… “prejudiced bigot.” It’s a matter of semantics.
(Although one would argue that even if this definition is correct, it would imply that we shouldn’t let folks harboring prejudice acquire power because then they would become truly racist.)
Wow this really turned into an ugly battle of name calling and assumptions, and quite frankly there are no winners just people making complete idiots out of themselved online…….I was under the assumption that Church Hill was a place of diversity and had a sense of community….and to have a quality of life that is appealing to each individual not just one group or a few individuals who think they are right….is the loud music offensive?? probably..is the loud music something you can overlook…probably….is calling each other rascist and complainging not only ugly but stupid..probably…come on…you want peace and a sense of community and an ablity to just ask…can you lower your music??? is that the right thing to do…probably…
maybe just being nice might work..what do you think???
James….have you taken to the name calling you so often criticize? tsk tsk. Aren’t you just as “obstinate and intolerant” of others’ opinions? I seem to have hit a nerve. Ouch!
Beside the point…am I a racist because I don’t like you? Meaning, I don’t like white people? Are you assuming I am not white? Or just believe I don’t like my own race? Or am I a racist because it is hard for you to accept that despite your trials and tribulations, you have in some way benefited from your skin color? Too close to home?
Great read on the privilege we experience even without realizing….
http://nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf
Sad that we can’t have conversations on this blog regarding poverty and race without paternalistic and condescending remarks from the peanut gallery. But as it has been pointed out, it is a free public website where all are free to post.
Let me clarify though, the reality is I don’t like ignorance. And it is often abound on this blog.
Folks continually make assumptions that it is just easy as pie to pick yourself up by your book straps and make a better life. You two always use your past as a way to prove that your scenario is true. It simply IS NOT that easy. There is a vicious cycle of poverty and racism in this country that keeps people (and profits from keeping people) in poverty. But I’m also not here to compare our personal oppressions, Alex, so I won’t get into the pissing contest with you about who had a harder life. It is a stupid way to try and prove you have a leg to stand on in this conversation. Remove the personal from the conversation (as I have tried to do…notice, you know little of my personal life, besides my profession) and talk in group dynamics or institutional dynamics. THEN we can have a conversation about race and poverty.
Also, Alex…you are quick to jump on others making assumptions, but you made multiple about me in your post. One, you assume I am female. Two, you assume I went to “fancy liberal college.” Would you respect me more if you knew I went to Liberty?
My point is not to put you down or criticize you. Like you, I once refused to recognize the privilege bestowed on me for being white and the ways in which my silence on the issue of racism perpetuated the institutionalized racism present in our society.
Read the article above. Please. I’m not calling you a racist, I’m saying you don’t get it. Your perceptions and judgements of people are based on racialized stereotypes of PEOPLE…HUMAN BEINGS…who are in reality, your neighbors. It doesn’t make me an apologist or a liberal to care about other HUMANS. What it does make me is compassionate.
Until us “white folks” recognize the ugly history of racism in this country, the system won’t stop oppressing. It isn’t for lack of want that African Americans continue to be stuck in poverty in large number. Shit, this country was built on the backs of blacks. It wasn’t the fat lazy white dudes working the fields. We prefer, though, to live with our inherent prejudices about people…passed down from generation to generation. We learn these beliefs. We assume they are true. You talk in “facts” about people abusing the system and staying in poverty with their “bastard” kids (just wow….low blow. Judge other much?) but I’ve yet to see a statistic or study who backs your hatred. I’m happy to cite much of my opinion from books and journal studies, if you are interested. If you would actually take the time to read them.
Besides that, I clearly am beating my head on a brick wall. Neither of you want to see the other side because it would require you to give up power.
Continue patting yourselves on the back about how great you are and what an asset you are to the community while the rest of us work for change.
The “assumptions” I made about you were meant tongue in cheek, probably should have been more clear on that. I have no idea who you are and it’s honestly irrelevant to me. I’d rather keep this a discussion on ideas anyway and leave the personal side out of it. How about we just leave any assumptions about others out from now on. You clearly don’t know me and I don’t claim to know you.
The article you linked is actually very rational and raises some good points. I’m not so wedded to an ideology that I can’t admit that. In fact I would wholeheartedly endorse any actions that were made to correct these wrongs.
My problem is that you are often extending this to cover stuff that is quite frankly just bad behavior. I’m with you 100% on fighting prejudice in our culture. You lose me when you start to give blanket apologies for poor decisions that some members of our community make. This is in part because it’s a starting point for a reverse prejudice system if we go far enough down the slope (I want equality, not for one group to be treated unfairly) and partly because I think it discourages folks from aspiring to achieve more (the soft racism of low expectations).
Just, here’s one for you to read:
http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/08/26/the-soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations-what-if-michael-vick-were-white/
Since you seem to have a preference for research papers, I’ll give you a reading assignment as well:
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20051007_Murrayg.pdf
I would also be happy to share plenty of references with you as well but I think it’s fair to say that there’s plenty of material on both sides from academically respected sources.
Just because you haven’t been listening to any that you find disagreeable doesn’t mean they aren’t there. I won’t claim that quoting a paper or two will make my point any more valid, just wanted to point out that this is hardly a settled matter.
Also, since personal examples don’t seem to work for you, and as per your request:
“talk in group dynamics or institutional dynamics. THEN we can have a conversation about race and poverty.”
Let’s try this:
Would you say that illegitimate births (i.e. “bastards” as I so judgingly, but literally correctly labeled them earlier) have a fairly severe negative impact on poor, particularly African Americans, communities?
And finally, just to finish my response to all the points you raised in your essay/post, if you told me you went to Liberty it wouldn’t make any difference in my perception of you. (Though I will admit your political view would have been in the minority there)
I am glad Alex is on here to bring a little logic into the discussion. Too bad many will not understand his posts.
James…Why still post on a community blog to which you have no tie?
You moved. Find the suburban blog for your new community.
As for Alex’s thoughtful and much appreciated response devoid of personal experience…
I would agree with the article and argue that without knowing me you can’t possibly say that I an making excuses. While I find no issue with loud music, I often play mine quite loud, my issue on this blog often lies with the over generalizations made about people living in poverty. More then once, someone has referred to black people as thugs, criminals and ghetto. (i say black because that is the vast majority of those in poverty on the hill.) All are unacceptable.
I have a problem with placing your class values on to anyone. I have three “bastard” children and we are firmly middle class. We didn’t marry because we are not religious.
But I do agree that we have to set the standards higher for our youth. Change the expectations on education, on behaviour. I work with my kids on this all the time. People assume this an easy fix. “why don’t they just stop…insert xyz…”
In reality, we all can be loud at times, all curse on occasion, all do all the things we stereotype black people as doing. Culturally, we have our own misgivings, that likely bother others around us. Why can we not accept and be tolerant of differences? You know, the ones that don’t infringe on our own rights. Why do we judge people by what they wear, or their hair, or the volume of their music?
I’m not saying dismiss teen pregnancy, violence, or crime. Let’s work proactively to educate our children away from those behaviours, instead of judging reactively. Which is all that appears to happen on this blog. This becomes a place to complain about the problem but rarely a solution is proposed.
So here is a suggestion…get involved with the people through one of the many community efforts…list forthcoming
And Alex…my last comment was not directed at you as an individual but all the complainers who aren’t working towards sustainable change in our communities.
If there are people who want to get involved, check out this site:
http://www.volunteermatch.org/
You can search our city and then the different organizations.
In Church Hill and the area, there is CHAT, Higher Achievement (At Henderson Middle and Boushall) needs mentors last I heard, also the Communities in Schools programs are always looking for volunteers for tutoring and mentors.
The is also AMP in schools if you work for one of the following businesses (see link for business partners):
http://ampmetrorichmond.org/getInvolved.html
There is VA Mentoring
http://www.vamentoring.org/
If none of those meet your needs, let me know, I can find more!
Good points and I think we are finding a lot of common ground. I know we’ll never see 100% eye to eye but I respect that. A few minor quibbles with your post though:
1. One of my beefs with you in the past has been that you automatically assume racist intents whenever people use the word “thug.” I wish you would realize that there are such things in our midst and by squelching any discussion about how to deal with the problem, you may be making it worse. I realize the label is insensitive to some and many do stereotype. I think it’s fair to ask that people are more sensitive in how they judge others and not to rush to judgment. The same should apply before we assume our neighbors are racist also. Granted their language may not be PC but if you don’t know the situation it seems a little to silly assume they are wrong.
2. Religion aside, kids are better with two adults in their life. I don’t care about the legal status of people’s kids but I would hope that folks think twice before bringing kids into this world with a handicap of not having the same support that others do. If they don’t, it’s the parent who is to blame, not society. That said, I know it’s our duty as a caring society not to abandon someone because of the poor choices of their parents. If your children have two or more supporting adults in their life, I don’t think it matters what the law says. If not, you are being selfish in my opinion.
I almost agree with everything you say. Who knew!
Two Points:
I think because of the racial stereotypes associated with the word “thug” it is better not used, especially since you don’t the intent or the actions of the person, especially when simply talking about someone who is just standing on a corner or at a market. Assuming they are doing something more then loitering usually comes from a place of fear…based on said stereotypes/racially driven ideas gotten from media or from the things we hear growing up.
If you “suspect” illegals behaviors, fine, but can we do so with out the words that are hurtful and hateful?
I mean, I know for a fact the people across the street are selling drugs. I know so because I know someone in the police department who said they are on their radar. I still would refrain from using that language. Are they criminals. Sure. If a white person is selling drugs, I don’t call them thugs. I call them dealers. There lies our point of contention.
2. I know a lot of families that are lead by single mothers and fathers and are doing a kick ass job of raising their kids. Where do we draw the line in judging single parents? Is it okay to judge them if they choose to have kids alone? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse left? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse died? Once step further, do we judge wealthy people who have kids alone? Or just poor people?
Otherwise, I’m glad you and I can have a civil debate! Kudos to us both!
@#74
“James…Why still post on a community blog to which you have no tie?
You moved. Find the suburban blog for your new community.’
Oh, get over yourself. I still live in the city. My new home doesn’t have the risk of violence or robbery as much as my home in CH, but I am still very much in the city. It is also a free country. If you have a problem with my posts, please direct your complaints to someone who cares. I would still love to see Church Hill improve, and part of that includes staying in touch with the community through news sources. Also, as I keep stating, I still have friends in CH.
success. i’ve managed yet again to get under skin.
who takes the blog too seriously now?
1. “If you “suspect” illegals behaviors, fine, but can we do so with out the words that are hurtful and hateful?”
I’d go so far as to say I won’t call anyone a thug unless I actually see proof that they are. Someone yelling obscenities at women passing by, taking hits off a blunt in broad daylight, buying drugs in front of me, etc. I realize others may not be so generous but I agree it’s best not to make assumptions that may be unfair based on appearance.
If I agree not to call anyone a “thug” without knowing for sure that they’ve done something to deserve it, can you agree not to accuse your neighbors of being “racists” unless you have some real proof they are? Those words are just as hurtful and hateful. Overusing them can also cheapen real racism when it occurs.
2. “I know a lot of families that are lead by single mothers and fathers and are doing a kick ass job of raising their kids. Where do we draw the line in judging single parents? Is it okay to judge them if they choose to have kids alone? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse left? Is it okay to judge them if their spouse died? Once step further, do we judge wealthy people who have kids alone? Or just poor people?”
My point is not that there aren’t situations where a single parent can be a good parent. I know that is true. My point is that children are more likely to succeed in school and life with two parents and the statistics back this up (surely you know these stats as well as I do, but I would be glad to show support if you’d like).
Once it’s happened or if there’s no way of keeping a healthy environment because the parents hate each other, there’s really nothing to be gained by judging. I do think we should invest more in preventing this instead of acting like it’s perfectly normal behavior. Why would someone willingly start their child off with a handicap?
This is true whatever the person’s socio-economic station may be. I’m not so much calling for us to be judgmental about the cases where it has happened as I am asking for us to be honest about the fact that it’s less than ideal for the kids and be judgmental about the general trend being a negative one for society.
When numbers show a clear pattern, we need to be honest even if the implications are uncomfortable to some, not point to the exceptions and wish it away. It may be upsetting to some but I’d rather upset some adults than condemn a child to a disadvantaged start.
Just, you are an annoyance, but there is no way you can get under my skin. You better stick to your one-sided viewpoints. It really paints a nice picture of you.
Back at ya, love!
Alex…..I think we have come to as much as an agreement as we are going to get to and it is pretty darn close.
I can agree to all your points!
Not you, personally…but I think “most” people, in the discussion of single parents, we do tend to judge along class lines…which is where my point lies.
I think you are right that childern are always better when they have a “community” of people to support them in what ever form that takes. I think a child with a single mother, but a super supportive extended family can be just as good as a two parent household.
If it makes you feel any better, I cringe whenever I see some rich celebrity who I know will be divorced 5x within the child’s first few years and will be leaving the kid with a nanny 90% of the time popping out a baby. Money has nothing to do with parenting ability. Where most single parents come up short is in not having time to spend with the kids.
I live at the stop sign on 32nd and Broad and I listen to huge trucks and absolutely deafening traffic noise all day long. I hear all sorts of cars blasting music (and yes we run the gamut from the Beatles to Beyonce), not to mention those yelling up and down the street at each other, my personal favorite. Passersby throw chicken bones and trash, and let their dogs crap in the middle of the sidewalk DAILY. Do you think I’m really going to bother the Police with any of that?!? Of course not. It’s ridiculous. We live in the city and they have bigger fish to fry. Deal with it- I do.
It’s enough to make me nostalgic for the lost dog posts.
Yall be talkin bout me and my bisness for days and I juss wanna set the record straight for reel. First a all, I aint even say I black. Who the racist now? Second, you all be biching bout stuff sayin like you know everything linking all those fancy science papers an all, but yall be actin juss as racist as any one else. Nieghbor, you tryin to stick up fo me like I cant handle my own bisness, like I stupid a shit. I don’t write all smart so you got to come down on me and start talkin bout how I don’t know no better and shit? You be sayin people sholdnt get all judging an shit, then you say Richmond school be garbage? I aint go to school in Richmond. Then you be tellin that alex fool not to be callin people thug cuz that racist. You racist just sayin that shit. When alex say thug, you think black man? That’s fukked up. Alex can say whatever shitt he want, alex can be hatin on us, so I play my music loud, we both sayin fuk you to each otha, but we aint cryin bout it. This America, you wanna cry for people, move your ass to france or some shit.
And James, you can walk yur suburban ass back to yo white bread cookie houses, we aint give a shit bout what some pusy that move away think no more.
Hahaha! Right. My suburban ass? I moved from Chicago, Mr. internet tough guy. Spend a few years in central Logan Square and see what a real city is like (Richmond feels more like a Chicago suburb). Besides, I still live in Richmond City, but I live in a better part now. I even have grocery stores within a short walk.
I do agree with you about the term thug. I have seen plenty of white and latino thugs in my lifetime, so I never thought the word was related to a specific race.
Maybe cbd didn’t go to school in Richmond but I doubt he graduated from any school with writing skills like that!
Sometimes I wonder if ignorant and/or incoherent posts are posted by people trying to get a rise out of CHPN readers.
I used to live on this corner, never had any problem with noise. Seems like someone has nothing better to do than complain.
You know, I hesitate to point out the obvious here.
@cbd…you are clearly ASSuming my race, as you believe that I am speaking for YOU. What if I am black and speaking for myself? Am I not then entitled to challenge the beliefs about my own race? Or do you assume I am white because I quote “fancy science papers” and because I “write all smart”. Can I be black and do those things or are those only reserved for “white people”?
Right back at you crd…
Turn that shit down and go f— yourself. Other than that, have a nice day.
Sorry, meant to say cbd.
j.a.n., not to stir the pot but I don’t think anyone is ASSuming anything about you from your posting of links to academic studies. Your earlier posts clear state you are white (unless you were imagining yourself to be white when you wrote them, which would be pretty sad).
Quotes yours, bold mine:
“Great read on the privilege we experience even without realizing….” (unless that article was referring to black privilege… which wasn’t how it sounded to me)
“Until us “white folks” recognize the ugly history of racism in this country, the system won’t stop oppressing.”
“Like you, I once refused to recognize the privilege bestowed on me for being white”
This thread is twisted enough without a white poster accusing someone of being a racist for stereotyping them as being a white person. Or someone who can’t quite keep straight what they are claiming to be now spending time correcting folks who are simply assuming they can take them at their word.
All that said, I think your race is quite frankly irrelevant and only point this out in an attempt to cut this ridiculous tangent short. Nobody’s assuming anything about your from stereotypes when you basically said that you were white about 10 posts ago.
#98 Alex, thanks for the correction!
#89 JD, I wonder the same thing. Agree with you completely.
What I would like to see right now is a post from Coco, who supposedly was in business for herself (well, okay, maybe she had a pimp) and was using an abandoned house on Mosby Street that was about to go through renovation, thus removing her place of business from her. Now, that was humor, and it lightened things up nicely…Coco, where are you now? I know the house was fully renovated, and they trashed your mattress, but surely you didn’t go far?
And (while I’m at it) whatever happened to Joe Richmond, with whom I was supposed to have a date when we had several threads that exceeded 100 posts about the proposed baseball stadium in the bottom?
WOW…89 posts and not much has changed….where is the DDL-spotting thread……….
This thread is quite possibly one the absolute worst things I have ever seen on the internet. Mods, can you just close it and put it out of it’s misery?
Jaime, there’s plenty of other threads on here. Go somewhere else if you don’t want to read. Or maybe contribute something constructive of your own.