Yeah, umm, I don’t go anywhere near the ghetto ABC store on 25th. Also, I am not looking to buy Jack Daniels and Bacardi. I am looking for Eagle Rare, Pappy Van Winkle, or some 12+ year old scotch. So, yes, I drive to Carytown for liquor. I feel safer shopping there and they actually have a decent selection.
Oh lord. I walk down to the library and the dollar store on 25th all the time with my young children (gasp) and have never been harassed or bothered. People actually (double gasp) say hello and are quite friendly.
When I went by around 3 p.m. today, there were a couple of people picking up empty boxes (in preparation for a move), and the store looked stocked. I asked one person outside when it was opening and she said Thursday. What with all the new apts. going up, plus the existing crowd up the hill, they will probably do a booming business. And I think if they aren’t stocking your bourbon or scotch, if they carry it in Carytown then just ask this store to carry it.
I drive to the Carytown store for the good stuff as well. If the Scotch aisle is any indicator, you may be disappointed with their bourbon selection. You can clearly see the labels on the Scotch shelves through the 25th Street window. We may need to band together to encourage them to carry a few favorites from the Carytown store. I will gladly buy a bottle (or three) of Pappy Van Winkle.
teresa, I run in that area all the time. However, the one experience I had with that ABC store was rather unwelcoming, and the selection was awful. I have no desire to shop there at all.
Mark, that is sad to hear. I was hoping this place would carry some high end libations to go along with the area. I am with you on pushing for a better selection.
From my experience, most ABC stores will gladly special order anything VA ABC carries. Since the one of Main will be at least a walk-in I’m sure we may be able to convince them to possibly carry a few speciality bottles. Like the store in Carytown, perhaps this store will have a case with more specialty libations.
I agree that the Carytown location has the most high-end selection, but the ABC store on Laburnum (across from the Target/Longhorn Steakhouse) actually has a pretty good selection, I pick up good bourbon and rye for my husband there quite a bit. Unfortunately, they are not open on Sundays. Anyone know whether the 21st St. store will have Sunday hours?
I do, Lora. Just wish it was open on Sundays:) However, I am always nervous that the older woman with the intensely hirsute Burt Reynolds mustache will be working the register and I will have to figure out how to complete my transaction without looking at her!!! LOL.
Sheesh, you guys i was being sarcastic. Of course, online on this blog (or any other webite), one cannot detect that.
If you’re going out to find good booze anywhere, no matter how far away from the Hill, that’s fine. I was just pointing out it’d nice to not have to order behind glass… It was a joke. I took a newer-to-Hill friend to that one, and assured him that not all VA ABC stores are like that.
I’m happy a new one is coming on Main. Maybe party peeps will not think to walk that far from Shockoe Bottom and/or the Slip… but we’ll see.
Well, there goes the neighborhood. Considering that the new apartment building on the same property will have 24 section 8 units & with an ABC store, its only a matter of time before drugs and crime come to the site. In an area that has been making leaps and bounds with improvements it seems now that we are going in the opposite direction.
yes, because those damn poor apartment people just ruin a good neighborhood esp when you allow them to drink (insert eye roll).
the comments on this blog never cease to amaze me just how horrible my neighbors are.
we need to stop criminalizing poverty…first off.
then we need to start tearing down all of the projects and integrate people into mixed income housing…just like this apartment building so that we don’t have high concentrations of poverty.
and BTW, not just poor people drink…as we have seen. many of our more middle class neighbors are happy about the arrival of the ABC store.
Teresa, I agree completely w/ everything you said. I’m about to rent to a section 8 family, who aren’t delinquent, drug-abusing slackers. They actually just need help paying rent. If you’re single mother of two children and work in retail, you’d find it difficult to get by on less than $15k a year, too. To add to it, my family will live w/ other renters and mostly owners in a safe community.
Just because families (and singles) need help w/ housing doesn’t mean the whole area is gonna become crime-ridden and fall apart in a second. People are in need of section 8 housing for many different reasons.
Teresa and Laura W don’t demonize Dennis. Funny how everyone always comes to the rescue of poor people they don’t know. Look at your areas where there is more density of poverty (say Mosby Street for example). Union Hill fought the issuance of an ABC off license for a market over there (and I believe won). You get higher density of poverty and ABD off together it generally doesn’t bode well for the area. (See ABC on 25th Street as an example).
Yes…high density of poverty IS a problem. I’m not saying criminal activity isn’t more likely to occur in these areas, we all know it is.
That still doesn’t mean that all poor people are criminals. In fact, the majority of poor people are in fact NOT criminals.
There are plenty of criminals living out in the burbs or rich neighborhoods even..snorting their high end coke (instead of crack) and smocking pot. White collar crime still exists. Just look at Enron.
So don’t tell me that the poor people living in my neighborhood are the be all end all of crime. We all know that is bullshit.
Teresa & Laura, I agree with what you are saying-to a degee, however, look at the statistics. Also I don’t think it is fair if someone moves into an upscale apartment and they pay $1500 a month and across the hall, the exact apt for section 8 may only rent for $400.00 a month. There is no incentive for poor people to improve their lifestyle if they can have the government pay their way. And by the way, I also consider myself to be border-line poor, but I never hesitate to be charitable. I understand that real poverty exists in the inner city and that you cannot assume that all are “working the system”. It’s a matter of the government “helping” the poor or “enabling the poor”.
@Dennis- with what information are you using to state the property will have section 8 units. The houing authority does not typically allocate vouchers to a property and based on what I know about that overall development I would be surprised if many, much less a majority of the units were rent subsidized.
Actually, I can 100% guarantee more crime happens in the ghettos of the east end than it does in places like Windsor Farms. I think TV and media has ruined your brain if you think otherwise. Not saying that crime doesn’t exist among white collar workers, but it is few and far between.
Now poverty breeds criminals. That doesn’t mean the poor are criminals, but is does mean that any area with a large population of the poor will have a higher crime rate. It is easier to be tempted to break the law when you have less to lose. I was poor once, and I know that temptation.
I do, however, agree with you that this mixed income building will not likely lead to additional crime. The Sec 8 units will be far outweighed by the other units, and I bet they will require a few references to rent. I have no worries about the ABC store being located there.
So Teresa, I think you are trying to be politically correct in your comments regarding poor people and crime. I would like to see living up in Mosby Court with your family. Let me know how that works out for you. For the rest of us, I think Dennis has a valid point in regards to the strides we have made and how the addition of section 8/subsidized housing and the liquor store will bring down the neighborhood.
There is a big difference between section 8 and Mosby Court. The apts across the street from Poe’s are section 8 – but I’d rather walk there late at night than in Mosby.
#29. Nonsense. All you need to do is look at the clientele of the Market at Tobacco Row and the Subway sandwich shop to realize exactly what you’ll be seeing at the new ABC location. It’s a broad, diverse cross section of longtime city dwellers, med students, young working professionals and couples. To insinuate, in any way, that this Store will resemble it’s counterpart on 25th is absurd and completely farfetched.
Be honest, you have a problem with people of a different race and anyone who makes less than you do.
#33. Thanks HillGuy, for sounding so sane and rational.
The provincial attitudes on this thread are hilarious. Last time I drove through Shockoe, I was under the impression that downtown Richmond is part of a CITY. You know, like D.C, Philly, NYC. When I’m in a CITY, I’m not spooked by the idea of (gasp!) poor people living in close proximity to places that sell (gasp!) alcohol.
See, one of the cool but inevitable things about living in a CITY is that sometimes developments occur that might not jibe with your own conception of what’s sensible and responsible. And though I’m usually annoyed when someone plays the “Don’t like it? Well, move to the suburbs then!” card, in this case I just can’t resist making such a suggestion. If your panties get all knotted up by the idea of alcohol and section 8 folks not being kept apart by the moral equivalent of a barbed wire fence, then maybe you’d find life in a place like Short Pump less stressful and anxiety-inducing.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to browsing their selection of Irish whiskey. Life on the Hill just gets better and better!
wow. just wow.
Some of the comments here are pretty unbelievable, and not just for their subtle (not) anti-poor black people tone, but also for being totally off-base in terms of building an argument against having a store there.
As a retail space, putting an ABC store there is perfect.
*Viable* commercial development (shops & stores) has to happen IN TANDEM with residential development (condos/apartments/new homes) or otherwise everything goes south. And the key word is viable. Meaning, it can survive. Remember the outdoor fitness/camping store that was by the Poe Museum for a minute? Yeah, me neither, it wasn’t viable, no matter how noble.
It’s called an inner-city neighborhood, people–remember what that it? It’s an urban landscape that encompasses where actual urban people live and where people actually shop. I am sure most of you eat at Aziza’s, get coffee at Globehopper, and run into that pharmacy at least once in awhile. And The Market. And Millie’s. And the Fasmart. Those are viable businesses (that all sell alcohol, BTW). As is an ABC store. I shop at the ABC store at least twice a month. Now I (and we) can all go to the ABC store and buy our upscale liquor (stating the obvious, I am sure the location will have a fairly different inventory than the 25th St. ABC store) and now we will not have to drive to Carytown to get our Pappy Van Winkle (where no one seems to mind the ABC store…)
Cindy..my home us already a mere few blocks from Mosby. I’m frequently over there driving my students home and teach many of the children who live in Mosby, creighton, Gilpen, Wickham, etc. my students baby sit my children when I need night out. In no way am I just “trying to be PC.”
Believe it our not, not all of your neighbors are racist, classist people.
And there are plenty of crimes happening in wealthy or middle class neighborhoods. I don’t watch tv (no cable..gasp) and rarely get out with three under five..so I doubt my brain is too screwed up regarding images of crime. I think more likely your (and others) images of your black neighbors have been formed by the same brain rotting media.
LOL! Now Teresa is playing the race card in a discussion about poor areas having crime. Please! You don’t even know what diversity is. Richmond only has Black and White here on the east end. Go live a real city and you will see a real mix of race and color.
You need to face the simple fact that populated areas of poverty have more crime than wealthy or mixed income areas. The city of Richmond is a prime example. 99% of the major violent crime is concentrated around the low income areas. Don’t blame it on the fact that black people tend to populate some of these areas (sounds like you are the racist one now). Black, white, red, brown, it’s all the same. Pick any area in this country with a large population of people in poverty and you will find a high crime rate. Again, not all poor people are criminals, but poverty breeds crime.
I would also like to reiterate that this mixed income housing with an ABC store below is not an issue. Section 8 units in a new building have nothing to do with crime.
There’s a difference between section 8 apartments and a development that will accept section 8 vouchers. Just because they will accept the vouchers it doesn’t mean the units will be used by voucher holders. The powers that be rarely approve project based vouchers.
There is a yuppie brewpup scheduled to open up next door soon. Not exactly a ghetto mart/crackhouse that is going to destroy the neighborhood….
And finally, for those of you who think they know what Section 8 is, go educate yourself. I don’t have the time or energy to itemize all the inaccuracies that are in some of the above comments. Go learn about what it is, who is involved, and whether or not landlords can choose to just not rent to someone with a Section 8 voucher merely because they don’t like the looks of them…
though i don’t agree with the comments made by some regarding that the area will be in jeopardy because of section 8 housing, let’s please not turn this into a racial issue. Class warfare, maybe, but not racial. These people are aware of the different flavors in a City, yet chose to live here.
As a new resident of Church Hill after nine years in the suburbs, I can say that the reason my husband and I moved here is because of the diversity of the people and having decent restaurants and shopping within walking distance. Yes, I have braved the ABC store at 25th. I was not hassled and in fact had the door opened for me both coming and going by young men who smiled and said “you’re welcome, ma’am” when I thanked them. Not everyone that lives over there is a thug even if they might look like they just got out of filming a Lil Wayne video. My neighbors are black and white, rich, middle class and poor, young and old. We’ve talked more to our side-to-side neighbors in six weeks than we talked to anyone on our old street in nine years. We wanted to live in a neighborhood, not a development, and we do and the good far outweighs the bad. You should want businesses opening here, even–gasp!–businesses that sell booze near possibly poor people.
According to an employee, this store is staffed and managed by the folks at Carytown. The Irish Whiskey section is tiny. The Scotch Whiskey section is very small. The bourbon aisle is very large (for the size of the space). Typical of most ABC stores, the vodka selection is abundant. The brandy section was empty. A few too many miniatures for my taste. The staff was very personable and eager to know each customer’s special requests. I got the impression that it is a work in progress. Oh, and there is no glass partition!
James…the more I come to this blog, the more I believe you to be a total douche bag.
stop being so condescending.
I’ve lived in seattle where there is plenty of diversity. I mention your image of blacks because I’m very aware of the racial demographic in out city and when we talk about who is living in poverty in our city, those numbers are overwhelmingly blacks.
I think your a total racist and I’m sorry your aren’t willing to confront your own demons. I’m sure you think you are an outstanding white guy who just doesn’t like crime. You do after all run near the ABC on 25th.
Anyway…you are making so many wrong assumptions here.
First, you assume I’m white.
Second, you assume I’ve always lived in Richmond.
Third, you assume you know more about everything in Church hill then everyone else.
I started coming to this blog as a way to keep up with my neighborhood. Now I realize, you aren’t the neighbors I want to know.
On another note, I stoppled in last night to pick up some bourbon. The attendant was pleasant and mentioned that is there is anything that I regularly drink they they don’t have in the store, they would gladly special order it.
@ Ry–you are absolutely correct–I think some people on here do not seem to understand what the deal is with Section 8 and want to leap to conclusions.
@Teresa–you kind of had me, until the namecalling. Then the wheels fell off of your bus. If you go back and read James’ posts, especially the last two sentences of #42, you might understand his point, which is the opposite of your interpretation.
@sunny #46–wha da? since when is this thread about Obama? chill out.
Has nothing to do with Obama. Just saying, it seems that no one is above name calling and playing the class warfare card. Im chilled, don’t worry. i am not the one that accused people of being racists. my initial statement “though i don’t agree with the comments made by some regarding that the area will be in jeopardy because of section 8 housing, let’s please not turn this into a racial issue. Class warfare, maybe, but not racial. These people are aware of the different flavors in a City, yet chose to live here.”
Teresa, thanks for taking the thread down another level into the gutter. They let you teach children? I am astonished. There is no need for childish name-calling.
First of all, I assume you are African American at this point. Not because of previous posts, but because of the post #49 where you jump in and call me racist. I would then make the conclusion that you think I am white, since (in your mind) only a white person could claim that poor areas have high crime. After all, as you said, most of the poor areas in RVA are also African American neighborhoods. However, I hate to ruin your grand hypothesis on what type of person I am, but I don’t care about race or color.
Here are my points that you seem to want to skip over in your anger and lack of proper rebuttal:
1. Not all poor people are criminals! Section 8 housing does not always bring in crime.
2. Poverty breeds crime. Race has nothing to do with this. Look at any poor area, whether it be occupied by whites, blacks, latinos, or even asians, and you will see a high crime rate.
3. Middle class and upper class neighborhoods have less crime than poor neighborhoods in the same city/area. I know you say they are the same and that the crimes are just not caught, but you are wrong. I am sorry. 9 out of 10 homes in the mid to upper class areas are going to occupied by law abiding citizens. No undercover illegal activities, just people working and living their lives. There are middle and upper class neighborhoods (even in RVA) occupied by whites and blacks. Again, no need to even mention race in this argument.
4. This is the most important point… The fact that the building on Main contains section 8 housing, and also features an ABC store, has nothing to do with crime. Mixed income housing is the best way to break up the poor/crime ridden neighborhoods. It gives the good people living in the poor areas a way out. This is the only point that we should be arguing here, but some people like going off about racism and everyone hating the poor. Get over it.
Now, Teresa, I will no longer converse with you, unless you are willing to use your mature adult vocabulary. I have summarized my points, and I think they are quite clear. If you decide to continue the name calling, I will just ignore you.
What does any of this have to do with the building of an ABC store? Dang are we the adults? I felt like I was reading facebook or twitter for a minute…
If you don’t want to be around, close to, nearby poor crime ridden areas then move out of church hill. If you don’t want to go to the abc store on 25th DON’T. If you want to protest the fact that they are building a new one on Main then DO SO!
People please…build a bridge and get over it!
This entire discussion was so counter productive. We can’t even post on a blog together, but we are expected to teach our children about unity and understanding…yea ok.
Hooray! No more driving to Carytown for liquor. I hope they stock a decent selection of Bourbon.
You drive to Carytown for booze??? Really!!! How about hoofing it to 25th St.? Are you afraid to get booze that’s behind glass?
er let me rephrase that, off of 25th. well, at any rate, it’ll be nice to have an ABC store in which you dont have to order bottles via glass.
If you like decent/fine bourbon, yes, you have to go somewhere other than 25th st.
Yeah, umm, I don’t go anywhere near the ghetto ABC store on 25th. Also, I am not looking to buy Jack Daniels and Bacardi. I am looking for Eagle Rare, Pappy Van Winkle, or some 12+ year old scotch. So, yes, I drive to Carytown for liquor. I feel safer shopping there and they actually have a decent selection.
http://shockoenews.com/2011/06/27/7039/
Opening Thursday!!!!!
Oh lord. I walk down to the library and the dollar store on 25th all the time with my young children (gasp) and have never been harassed or bothered. People actually (double gasp) say hello and are quite friendly.
When I went by around 3 p.m. today, there were a couple of people picking up empty boxes (in preparation for a move), and the store looked stocked. I asked one person outside when it was opening and she said Thursday. What with all the new apts. going up, plus the existing crowd up the hill, they will probably do a booming business. And I think if they aren’t stocking your bourbon or scotch, if they carry it in Carytown then just ask this store to carry it.
I drive to the Carytown store for the good stuff as well. If the Scotch aisle is any indicator, you may be disappointed with their bourbon selection. You can clearly see the labels on the Scotch shelves through the 25th Street window. We may need to band together to encourage them to carry a few favorites from the Carytown store. I will gladly buy a bottle (or three) of Pappy Van Winkle.
I meant 21st Street. I had The Roosevelt on the brain.
teresa, I run in that area all the time. However, the one experience I had with that ABC store was rather unwelcoming, and the selection was awful. I have no desire to shop there at all.
Mark, that is sad to hear. I was hoping this place would carry some high end libations to go along with the area. I am with you on pushing for a better selection.
James,
From my experience, most ABC stores will gladly special order anything VA ABC carries. Since the one of Main will be at least a walk-in I’m sure we may be able to convince them to possibly carry a few speciality bottles. Like the store in Carytown, perhaps this store will have a case with more specialty libations.
I agree that the Carytown location has the most high-end selection, but the ABC store on Laburnum (across from the Target/Longhorn Steakhouse) actually has a pretty good selection, I pick up good bourbon and rye for my husband there quite a bit. Unfortunately, they are not open on Sundays. Anyone know whether the 21st St. store will have Sunday hours?
Does no one go to the ABC store at Laburnum and Gay, in the shopping center where Ukrops was before White Oak Plaza?
I do, Lora. Just wish it was open on Sundays:) However, I am always nervous that the older woman with the intensely hirsute Burt Reynolds mustache will be working the register and I will have to figure out how to complete my transaction without looking at her!!! LOL.
I would think the new store on Mian would have Sunday hours…
Sheesh, you guys i was being sarcastic. Of course, online on this blog (or any other webite), one cannot detect that.
If you’re going out to find good booze anywhere, no matter how far away from the Hill, that’s fine. I was just pointing out it’d nice to not have to order behind glass… It was a joke. I took a newer-to-Hill friend to that one, and assured him that not all VA ABC stores are like that.
I’m happy a new one is coming on Main. Maybe party peeps will not think to walk that far from Shockoe Bottom and/or the Slip… but we’ll see.
Just in time for the Fourth!
Well, there goes the neighborhood. Considering that the new apartment building on the same property will have 24 section 8 units & with an ABC store, its only a matter of time before drugs and crime come to the site. In an area that has been making leaps and bounds with improvements it seems now that we are going in the opposite direction.
yes, because those damn poor apartment people just ruin a good neighborhood esp when you allow them to drink (insert eye roll).
the comments on this blog never cease to amaze me just how horrible my neighbors are.
we need to stop criminalizing poverty…first off.
then we need to start tearing down all of the projects and integrate people into mixed income housing…just like this apartment building so that we don’t have high concentrations of poverty.
and BTW, not just poor people drink…as we have seen. many of our more middle class neighbors are happy about the arrival of the ABC store.
Teresa, I agree completely w/ everything you said. I’m about to rent to a section 8 family, who aren’t delinquent, drug-abusing slackers. They actually just need help paying rent. If you’re single mother of two children and work in retail, you’d find it difficult to get by on less than $15k a year, too. To add to it, my family will live w/ other renters and mostly owners in a safe community.
Just because families (and singles) need help w/ housing doesn’t mean the whole area is gonna become crime-ridden and fall apart in a second. People are in need of section 8 housing for many different reasons.
Teresa and Laura W don’t demonize Dennis. Funny how everyone always comes to the rescue of poor people they don’t know. Look at your areas where there is more density of poverty (say Mosby Street for example). Union Hill fought the issuance of an ABC off license for a market over there (and I believe won). You get higher density of poverty and ABD off together it generally doesn’t bode well for the area. (See ABC on 25th Street as an example).
Yes…high density of poverty IS a problem. I’m not saying criminal activity isn’t more likely to occur in these areas, we all know it is.
That still doesn’t mean that all poor people are criminals. In fact, the majority of poor people are in fact NOT criminals.
There are plenty of criminals living out in the burbs or rich neighborhoods even..snorting their high end coke (instead of crack) and smocking pot. White collar crime still exists. Just look at Enron.
So don’t tell me that the poor people living in my neighborhood are the be all end all of crime. We all know that is bullshit.
Oh, and I take back my first statement about criminal activity being more likely to occur in poor areas. What I meant to say is that:
Criminal activity is more likely to get CAUGHT and PERSECUTED in poor areas. They don’t have the money to buy their way out.
Teresa & Laura, I agree with what you are saying-to a degee, however, look at the statistics. Also I don’t think it is fair if someone moves into an upscale apartment and they pay $1500 a month and across the hall, the exact apt for section 8 may only rent for $400.00 a month. There is no incentive for poor people to improve their lifestyle if they can have the government pay their way. And by the way, I also consider myself to be border-line poor, but I never hesitate to be charitable. I understand that real poverty exists in the inner city and that you cannot assume that all are “working the system”. It’s a matter of the government “helping” the poor or “enabling the poor”.
Ummm…I never said all poor people are criminals.
Windsor Farms: Low Crime Rate
Mosby Court: High Crime Rate
Nuf said.
@Dennis- with what information are you using to state the property will have section 8 units. The houing authority does not typically allocate vouchers to a property and based on what I know about that overall development I would be surprised if many, much less a majority of the units were rent subsidized.
Actually, I can 100% guarantee more crime happens in the ghettos of the east end than it does in places like Windsor Farms. I think TV and media has ruined your brain if you think otherwise. Not saying that crime doesn’t exist among white collar workers, but it is few and far between.
Now poverty breeds criminals. That doesn’t mean the poor are criminals, but is does mean that any area with a large population of the poor will have a higher crime rate. It is easier to be tempted to break the law when you have less to lose. I was poor once, and I know that temptation.
I do, however, agree with you that this mixed income building will not likely lead to additional crime. The Sec 8 units will be far outweighed by the other units, and I bet they will require a few references to rent. I have no worries about the ABC store being located there.
So Teresa, I think you are trying to be politically correct in your comments regarding poor people and crime. I would like to see living up in Mosby Court with your family. Let me know how that works out for you. For the rest of us, I think Dennis has a valid point in regards to the strides we have made and how the addition of section 8/subsidized housing and the liquor store will bring down the neighborhood.
There is a big difference between section 8 and Mosby Court. The apts across the street from Poe’s are section 8 – but I’d rather walk there late at night than in Mosby.
RY, ask the rental agent for this property. I was shocked too.
Poverty breeds crime. Ever heard of the saying “desperate times call for desparated measures”. All I am saying is watch, wait and see…
#29. Nonsense. All you need to do is look at the clientele of the Market at Tobacco Row and the Subway sandwich shop to realize exactly what you’ll be seeing at the new ABC location. It’s a broad, diverse cross section of longtime city dwellers, med students, young working professionals and couples. To insinuate, in any way, that this Store will resemble it’s counterpart on 25th is absurd and completely farfetched.
Be honest, you have a problem with people of a different race and anyone who makes less than you do.
I have a green pencil.
I doubt this store will attract the folks from the various “courts” like the one on 25th does. Too far to walk and all.
Here’s everything you’ll want to know about the new liquor store at 21st and Main.
And, yes. It’s open ’til 9PM and on Sundays.
From Rkichmond dot com:
http://www2.richmond.com/news/2011/jun/30/booze-bottom-ar-1143844/
#33. Thanks HillGuy, for sounding so sane and rational.
The provincial attitudes on this thread are hilarious. Last time I drove through Shockoe, I was under the impression that downtown Richmond is part of a CITY. You know, like D.C, Philly, NYC. When I’m in a CITY, I’m not spooked by the idea of (gasp!) poor people living in close proximity to places that sell (gasp!) alcohol.
See, one of the cool but inevitable things about living in a CITY is that sometimes developments occur that might not jibe with your own conception of what’s sensible and responsible. And though I’m usually annoyed when someone plays the “Don’t like it? Well, move to the suburbs then!” card, in this case I just can’t resist making such a suggestion. If your panties get all knotted up by the idea of alcohol and section 8 folks not being kept apart by the moral equivalent of a barbed wire fence, then maybe you’d find life in a place like Short Pump less stressful and anxiety-inducing.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to browsing their selection of Irish whiskey. Life on the Hill just gets better and better!
wow. just wow.
Some of the comments here are pretty unbelievable, and not just for their subtle (not) anti-poor black people tone, but also for being totally off-base in terms of building an argument against having a store there.
As a retail space, putting an ABC store there is perfect.
*Viable* commercial development (shops & stores) has to happen IN TANDEM with residential development (condos/apartments/new homes) or otherwise everything goes south. And the key word is viable. Meaning, it can survive. Remember the outdoor fitness/camping store that was by the Poe Museum for a minute? Yeah, me neither, it wasn’t viable, no matter how noble.
It’s called an inner-city neighborhood, people–remember what that it? It’s an urban landscape that encompasses where actual urban people live and where people actually shop. I am sure most of you eat at Aziza’s, get coffee at Globehopper, and run into that pharmacy at least once in awhile. And The Market. And Millie’s. And the Fasmart. Those are viable businesses (that all sell alcohol, BTW). As is an ABC store. I shop at the ABC store at least twice a month. Now I (and we) can all go to the ABC store and buy our upscale liquor (stating the obvious, I am sure the location will have a fairly different inventory than the 25th St. ABC store) and now we will not have to drive to Carytown to get our Pappy Van Winkle (where no one seems to mind the ABC store…)
@ Kevin and @ Hill Guy:
Exactly.
Cindy..my home us already a mere few blocks from Mosby. I’m frequently over there driving my students home and teach many of the children who live in Mosby, creighton, Gilpen, Wickham, etc. my students baby sit my children when I need night out. In no way am I just “trying to be PC.”
Believe it our not, not all of your neighbors are racist, classist people.
And there are plenty of crimes happening in wealthy or middle class neighborhoods. I don’t watch tv (no cable..gasp) and rarely get out with three under five..so I doubt my brain is too screwed up regarding images of crime. I think more likely your (and others) images of your black neighbors have been formed by the same brain rotting media.
LOL! Now Teresa is playing the race card in a discussion about poor areas having crime. Please! You don’t even know what diversity is. Richmond only has Black and White here on the east end. Go live a real city and you will see a real mix of race and color.
You need to face the simple fact that populated areas of poverty have more crime than wealthy or mixed income areas. The city of Richmond is a prime example. 99% of the major violent crime is concentrated around the low income areas. Don’t blame it on the fact that black people tend to populate some of these areas (sounds like you are the racist one now). Black, white, red, brown, it’s all the same. Pick any area in this country with a large population of people in poverty and you will find a high crime rate. Again, not all poor people are criminals, but poverty breeds crime.
I would also like to reiterate that this mixed income housing with an ABC store below is not an issue. Section 8 units in a new building have nothing to do with crime.
There’s a difference between section 8 apartments and a development that will accept section 8 vouchers. Just because they will accept the vouchers it doesn’t mean the units will be used by voucher holders. The powers that be rarely approve project based vouchers.
BTW, this complex looks very much like it is geared toward young professionals/med students.
http://www.capitolam.com/engine_company_richmond.php
There is a yuppie brewpup scheduled to open up next door soon. Not exactly a ghetto mart/crackhouse that is going to destroy the neighborhood….
And finally, for those of you who think they know what Section 8 is, go educate yourself. I don’t have the time or energy to itemize all the inaccuracies that are in some of the above comments. Go learn about what it is, who is involved, and whether or not landlords can choose to just not rent to someone with a Section 8 voucher merely because they don’t like the looks of them…
though i don’t agree with the comments made by some regarding that the area will be in jeopardy because of section 8 housing, let’s please not turn this into a racial issue. Class warfare, maybe, but not racial. These people are aware of the different flavors in a City, yet chose to live here.
And btw, IMHO, out president seems to be playing the same class warfare card. pleeeze
As a new resident of Church Hill after nine years in the suburbs, I can say that the reason my husband and I moved here is because of the diversity of the people and having decent restaurants and shopping within walking distance. Yes, I have braved the ABC store at 25th. I was not hassled and in fact had the door opened for me both coming and going by young men who smiled and said “you’re welcome, ma’am” when I thanked them. Not everyone that lives over there is a thug even if they might look like they just got out of filming a Lil Wayne video. My neighbors are black and white, rich, middle class and poor, young and old. We’ve talked more to our side-to-side neighbors in six weeks than we talked to anyone on our old street in nine years. We wanted to live in a neighborhood, not a development, and we do and the good far outweighs the bad. You should want businesses opening here, even–gasp!–businesses that sell booze near possibly poor people.
According to an employee, this store is staffed and managed by the folks at Carytown. The Irish Whiskey section is tiny. The Scotch Whiskey section is very small. The bourbon aisle is very large (for the size of the space). Typical of most ABC stores, the vodka selection is abundant. The brandy section was empty. A few too many miniatures for my taste. The staff was very personable and eager to know each customer’s special requests. I got the impression that it is a work in progress. Oh, and there is no glass partition!
James…the more I come to this blog, the more I believe you to be a total douche bag.
stop being so condescending.
I’ve lived in seattle where there is plenty of diversity. I mention your image of blacks because I’m very aware of the racial demographic in out city and when we talk about who is living in poverty in our city, those numbers are overwhelmingly blacks.
I think your a total racist and I’m sorry your aren’t willing to confront your own demons. I’m sure you think you are an outstanding white guy who just doesn’t like crime. You do after all run near the ABC on 25th.
Anyway…you are making so many wrong assumptions here.
First, you assume I’m white.
Second, you assume I’ve always lived in Richmond.
Third, you assume you know more about everything in Church hill then everyone else.
I started coming to this blog as a way to keep up with my neighborhood. Now I realize, you aren’t the neighbors I want to know.
Teresa, put a sock in it please!
On another note, I stoppled in last night to pick up some bourbon. The attendant was pleasant and mentioned that is there is anything that I regularly drink they they don’t have in the store, they would gladly special order it.
Very nice folks in there.
@ Ry–you are absolutely correct–I think some people on here do not seem to understand what the deal is with Section 8 and want to leap to conclusions.
@Teresa–you kind of had me, until the namecalling. Then the wheels fell off of your bus. If you go back and read James’ posts, especially the last two sentences of #42, you might understand his point, which is the opposite of your interpretation.
@sunny #46–wha da? since when is this thread about Obama? chill out.
Has nothing to do with Obama. Just saying, it seems that no one is above name calling and playing the class warfare card. Im chilled, don’t worry. i am not the one that accused people of being racists. my initial statement “though i don’t agree with the comments made by some regarding that the area will be in jeopardy because of section 8 housing, let’s please not turn this into a racial issue. Class warfare, maybe, but not racial. These people are aware of the different flavors in a City, yet chose to live here.”
Teresa, thanks for taking the thread down another level into the gutter. They let you teach children? I am astonished. There is no need for childish name-calling.
First of all, I assume you are African American at this point. Not because of previous posts, but because of the post #49 where you jump in and call me racist. I would then make the conclusion that you think I am white, since (in your mind) only a white person could claim that poor areas have high crime. After all, as you said, most of the poor areas in RVA are also African American neighborhoods. However, I hate to ruin your grand hypothesis on what type of person I am, but I don’t care about race or color.
Here are my points that you seem to want to skip over in your anger and lack of proper rebuttal:
1. Not all poor people are criminals! Section 8 housing does not always bring in crime.
2. Poverty breeds crime. Race has nothing to do with this. Look at any poor area, whether it be occupied by whites, blacks, latinos, or even asians, and you will see a high crime rate.
3. Middle class and upper class neighborhoods have less crime than poor neighborhoods in the same city/area. I know you say they are the same and that the crimes are just not caught, but you are wrong. I am sorry. 9 out of 10 homes in the mid to upper class areas are going to occupied by law abiding citizens. No undercover illegal activities, just people working and living their lives. There are middle and upper class neighborhoods (even in RVA) occupied by whites and blacks. Again, no need to even mention race in this argument.
4. This is the most important point… The fact that the building on Main contains section 8 housing, and also features an ABC store, has nothing to do with crime. Mixed income housing is the best way to break up the poor/crime ridden neighborhoods. It gives the good people living in the poor areas a way out. This is the only point that we should be arguing here, but some people like going off about racism and everyone hating the poor. Get over it.
Now, Teresa, I will no longer converse with you, unless you are willing to use your mature adult vocabulary. I have summarized my points, and I think they are quite clear. If you decide to continue the name calling, I will just ignore you.
What does any of this have to do with the building of an ABC store? Dang are we the adults? I felt like I was reading facebook or twitter for a minute…
If you don’t want to be around, close to, nearby poor crime ridden areas then move out of church hill. If you don’t want to go to the abc store on 25th DON’T. If you want to protest the fact that they are building a new one on Main then DO SO!
People please…build a bridge and get over it!
This entire discussion was so counter productive. We can’t even post on a blog together, but we are expected to teach our children about unity and understanding…yea ok.