Shooting at 21st and Leigh Streets
Preliminary reports of at least one man shot after a gun battle in the street at 21st and Leigh Streets. Some folks are saying 2 down. One man was taken away in police custody. Crowd says 9 shots fired.
Preliminary reports of at least one man shot after a gun battle in the street at 21st and Leigh Streets. Some folks are saying 2 down. One man was taken away in police custody. Crowd says 9 shots fired.
Excellent response by the police. Upon hearing the shots, I called 911, and by the time I was talking to a dispatcher, several cruisers were on the scene and a suspect apprehended.
As of 5pm a few blocks are taped off for evidence search and police investigation.
the way that I heard it – a guy was breaking into a car, girl tries to stop him. He pulls a gun, her boyfriend intervened with own weapon and wins.
Sadly, I’m currently seeing this unfold in front of my house. It was only one person down, a black male wearing a ski mask. If a second person was injured, they made it away from the immediate area at least. The injured man left by ambulance, but I think he might have been dead already.
good
John’s opening story says one taken away in police custody, but #3 says one taken by ambulance. Doesn’t that equal two total Kristin?
I saw the immediate aftermath, police were literally within a minute (officers heard shots while on the way back to the precinct). One guy, wearing all black and a black ski mask was laying face down on the sidewalk, sat up for a few seconds with his back up against the front of a parked car, and then slumped over seemingly lifeless back toward the curb. Our neighbor says he was shot in the back multiple times (her porch is inches from the scene). I swear that I heard 10 shots, neighbor says 6. We’ll see what the news comes up with. News crews are out in force now.
One guy shot, one guy arrested for it. I was hearing 2 guys shot initially, but that was wrong.
A detective also told us that two people of unknown involvement were taken in a cruiser back to the precinct.
Also, just talked to another detective on the porch: shot guy is dead, someone arrested. Many thanks to the multitude of officers and detectives who could not have been more kind, responsive, and professional.
ChrisF, #8&9 and as always John M., that is fantastic news that the police were so kind and responsive. Some time last fall, there was a disturbance outside the Hill Cafe and someone asked an officer what was going on, and as I recall from reading here, was told none of their business and go away. This sounds like a very different story. I’m at work reading all this and getting a sad feeling that it happened but glad at the same time that you folks who are there are/were able to talk to the police.
CBS6 gets that this happened in Union Hill.
AROUND 4:30, HEARD TWO SHOTS, FOLLOWED BY VOLLEY OF 6+. A FEW OF MY NEIGHBORS WERE IMMEDIATE WITNESSES BEFORE, AND AFTER THE FACT. MY FEELINGS ARE MIXED, BUT I’M VERY THANKFUL NO STRAY ROUNDS CAUSED ANYONE HARM. THE POLICE RESPONSE WAS NOTHING LESS THAN IMMEDIATE. LT. LAINO AND SEVERAL 1ST PRECINCT OFFICERS RESPONDED, SECURED THE ENTIRE BLOCK, AND WERE CONFIDENTLY (AND POLITELY) ON TOP OF THE SITUATION. KUDO’S AGAIN TO THEM AND ALL THEIR SERVICE MEANS TO US. JUST WANT TO ADD THAT IF YOU SEE SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR (DEFINITION?? >LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS!RIGHT AWAY<. ONE SUSPECT INVOLVED HERE WAS SEEN JUST PRIOR TO THE ACTUAL EVENT UNFOLDING. BE SAFE-EYES & EARS OPEN NEIGHBORS ! CRIMINALS KNOW WE ARE ALERT AND WATCH OVER OUR BLOCKS ZEALOUSLY.
I must say I’m glad the police responded well. But to know someone was breaking in a car armed in broad daylight makes me want to move back to the suburbs. We just moved here not to long ago, and the crime is much worse than we expected.
I was less than a bock away when I heard the shots. There were atleast half a dozen shots. A police car was at the same intersection as me and immediately turned toward that direction when he heard the noise.
Hang in there Steven H.
We love the area other than the crime. We came from Lynchburg (didn’t like it) but we never saw this kind of stuff so close to home.
Yeah, because crime never happens in the suburbs.
Did anyone hear the shots that were fired close to the 900 block of 26th or 25th last night? It was about 10 PM, I was watching Biggest Loser (not Jaws), that’s how I know.
Just read the Snooze Six update and it sounds like car owner’s trigger-happy boyfriend shot the perp while he was walking away from the scene unarmed. If this is the case, Mr. Knight-in-Shining-Armor is probably looking at a second degree murder charge.
Take a look at this http://www.southsiderichmond.org/2009/04/fear-and-loathing-in-richmond/
Reading that post, I am actually proud of the CHPN comments, where only 1 out of 21 comments are of the sort that blogger is talking about – ugly, and dismissive of human life. Looking at the T-D site, I guess I’m not surprised to see most people gloating over what I suppose they think is vigilante justice, similar to comments I’ve made the mistake of perusing on that site before. I think most CH neighbors will agree that this is a sad, sad story, no matter what the details turn out to be.
And for the record, my car was broken into last week too.
If the perp was walking away from the scene unarmed, where did his gone go? I believe it, I’m just curious.
Feel bad for all parties involved here. Trigger-happy boyfriend probably got an adrenaline rush seeing his girlfriend being faced with a gun and acted irrationally. How many people in the 21st & Leigh area actually walk around with a gun on their persons unless they’re up to no good, though? The Southside Richmond article is pretty great.
Good to know the cops are staying on their toes, but violent crime has been skyrocketing again recently in the Richmond area it seems. Anyone know how many homicides we’re up to? It has to be more than this time last year.
Sorry, that should have said where did his gun* go?
Thief dead by armed citizen in Church Hill? good riddance.
My recomendation- give citizen a merit badge and cash award.
judgement against thief’s estate for cost of car window and 6-10 bullets.
16 I think
Post #24. Well, actually, there are a lot of law-abiding citizens in the vicinity of 21st and Leigh who have guns, as well as permits to carry a concealed weapon. They just don’t brandish them. The folks I know hope they never, ever have to use their weapon(s).
Someone riding a bike with a headlight on it tried to break into my car last week around 4 a.m. a couple blocks from Chimborazo. My alarm scared him off.
UPDATE
from Richmond Police Department:
“At 4:30 p.m. today Richmond Police began an investigation into a shooting that occurred in the 2100 block of East Leigh Street.
A male, Jamal Holman, 24, was found shot and was transported to VCU Medical Center where he later died.
Police have arrested Eric G. Driver, Jr., 25, of the 500 block of North 22nd Street, and charged him with second degree murder and use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.
The decedent [deceased] had broken into a vehicle. Driver confronted Holman which led to an altercation resulting in the shooting of Holman.â€
Is it just me, or has there been a rash of thefts, vandalism, violence in the area in recent months? Maybe the impact of the economy?
We don’t know all the details yet, but I’ve lived in the city for nearly 20 years and have developed a strong general sense that people have a right to protect themselves, their loved ones, and their property from criminals. Unfortunately, our legal system does not always jive with this.
The whole situation is very sad. Does anyone know if precautions were taken for the Montessori School near by? The children are normally outside at this time.
I’m over on the northside and while I walk my dog I carry a golf club not cause I think someone is going to rob me but due to the pitbulls that run loose here.
The mistake this guy made was he shot the bad guy in the back. Also Virginia law doesn’t allow for one to use deadly force to protect proptery.
Our legal system does “jive” with the the value of human life and a peaceful community. Escalating a situation from petty larceny to murder is something that our legal system should, and does, discourage. I’ll take stolen cds over flying bullets in my neighborhood any day of the week.
Actually a nice piece on Union Hill by Mark Holmberg following the shooting:
http://tinyurl.com/d6698p
Oh my god. This is horrible.
About a week ago there was someone walking down the street and checking every car to see if any were unlocked. We saw it in progress and called 911 but no one ever showed up! By the time they would have the suspect would be long gone. Response times are not that quick in our area even though 1st precinct is only a couple blocks away. We had “5″ vehicles broken into and/or stolen at our house but several years ago. We now put a club on ours every evening and have installed security cameras on our property in addition to security bars on some hidden windows and of course our alarm system. Plus 2 dogs that will bark at noise so extra alertness.
Crime was a LOT worse when we first moved to Church Hill in 1999. During New Years and 4th of July it sounded like a battle zone in full attack but now you barely hear anything. There was even a bullet shot through one of our living room windows but never able to find the slug. I think the crime area is being pushed further and further back from Broad as houses are being renovated helping to force out the crime elements.
Eric
Based on my current understanding, the thief was unarmed, and committing an essentially trivial property crime. If true, the shooter went far, far, beyond any reasonable and proportionate use of force. He acted as judge, jury, and executioner. These are roles reserved for our legal system, not for some vigilante with a gun. Some early reports even indicated that the shooting victim was shot at least once in the back. If true, the murder charge is entirely appropriate and justified. There are no winners here.
#21 Do you live in Church Hill? I truly hope you are not one of my neighbors. You’re response absolutely disgusts to my soul.
Well I guess the moral of the story is that if you make the conscious decision to commit a crime against an innocent individual there’s a possibility that, at the end of the day, you might wind up dead, regardless if your death was justified or not.
#25
It is okay to kill someone because they are trying to steal something? That does not sit well with me. Things are replaceable; life is not. However, if the person was armed, then all bets are off, because that is trying to harm another person. Does anyone know if the thief was armed?
Yes, this is truly sad. I am sad for Eric and his family and yes I am sad for the family of the dead criminal. HOWEVER, Having been at the receiving end of a gun being pointed at my friends and me while being robbed very near this same location, I can tell you that your adrenalin kicks in and you go into protection mode. And the violation stays with you and affects your sense of security and self and limits your freedom. Charging Eric with second degree murder is an outrage!! He removed a criminal from our neighborhood and perhaps saved his girlfriends life or a future victims life. The criminals will never stop violating us unless we take a hard position of NO MORE!
“He acted as judge, jury, and executioner”
In fairness, he also acted as victim and witness.
Is he the same Eric Driver that was charged with assault last month (according to the Virginia Court records)? It looks like the same one.
Tiny, what on Earth is wrong with the response by #21? It’s another take on the problem … unnecessary violence and the loss of human life is inappropriate. Since when does a break-in necessitate execution? And what part of our legal code permits citizens to behave like vigilantes? This story, like most others about guns, makes me wish that I lived in a State with gun control.
You get into a whole set of ideal and moral differences here including gun control advocates vs. those opposed.
By the Constitution one has the right to bear arms but is debated by individual states as to what you can and can not do with them.
As an example, Mississippi’s Constitution states: ” The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons. ” So, defense of “property” is part of the rights. Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, and others have this same exact wording. Virginia’s only cites the right to own a gun but nothing about the use outside of Militia (old laws on the books).
Also, is it for certain the victim did “not” have a gun? Or made some move to threaten the alleged shooter to think the victim may be armed and reacted in self defense?
Not that I am defending anyone here… just that we need to know ALL of the facts first before condemning someone.
Me, I am all for protecting my property!
Eric
#35 Houdon, I agree, Mark Holmberg’s piece is good.
#41
Background Fact: 9mm pistol stolen out of car broken into on 29th St a few nights ago. how much you want to bet same criminal, now bolder and armed with gun.
It sounds like many folks here are interpreting the law to mean that, when you are being robbed or assaulted, your only option is to call the police and wait for them to arrive.
We’ve got some great folks on the Richmond police force, but they simply cannot be everywhere at once. In this particular case it sounds like they happened to be in the area, arrived almost immediately, and handled the situation very professionally. But that’s certainly not always the case. Usually the crime is over and the criminal long gone by the time the police arrive (I’ve had my car stolen twice so have had personal experience with this).
Once the crime is committed, the police generally lack the resources to conduct a meaningful investigation (i.e., when my car was recovered the second time, the perps left all kinds of nice clear fingerprints on CDs, receipts showing where they’d been, etc., but the police did nothing further because they had “another 50 stolen vehicle reports” to work that same day). In both cases my car was badly damaged and, while my insurance covered having it patched up somewhat, the car was never the same again. I’m not criticizing the police – just acknowledging that their hands are full. And a recent supreme court case relating to search and seizure of vehicles further hinders their ability to get the bad guys off the streets.
Recent events have shown that being docile and / or cooperative in the face of crime can have horrific results (e.g. the Harveys and Tyler Binsted).
I’m not advocating gun violence (I’d personally like to see the 2nd amendment nixed and all privately owned guns melted down for scrap) but the sad truth is that if you don’t look after yourself, your loved ones, and your property, there’s a good chance that no one will. When these things are threatened, you shouldn’t have to decide between 1) being a victim or 2) being charged with murder.
Hmm, Amy, I was trying to respond to Jesse and her belief that it is okay to kill someone in the circumstances of this case. I truly apologize – I wrote down the wrong post number. I completely agree with you!!
Maybe the person who was stupid enough to leave a gun in his or her car should have never been allowed to purchase it. In CH and UH, you’re asking for it if you leave anything in your car. I won’t even leave change or CDs in my car, because people have broken into cars for less. And some moron has the nerve to leave a GUN!!!!
Jesse:
I do not know, was there only one person breaking into cars in Church Hill? I cannot say that it was the same person. My issue with your post is that it implies that a thief should be gunned down, and I think that is excessive if he was breaking into a car. However, if he was threatening a person, then all bets are off, and I can see your point. But you said thief, not assaulter.
In a matter of moments, EVERYONE’s life has changed…….. A family is grieving (regardless if a thief or not — they have lost someone); a young woman’s property was disturbed (from my own experience, the creepiness factor of that never quite goes away) – her boyfriend arrested; a young man set to graduate from college next month is charged with murder (what will his future now hold?); and the surrounding neighborhood is also understandable shaken.
The events of Wednesday afternoon are tragic. We are fortunate that no one else was injured or killed. A previous posting said it well – in the grand scheme of things, what’s a couple of CDs or a GPS truly worth? Afterall, isn’t that why we have car and home/renters insurance?
I do commend the young gentlemen, thinking his girlfriend was in physical danger, for coming to her aide —- but his only objective should have been getting her (and himself) back to safety, and wait for the police.
Shows like Law&Order and NCIS while very entertaining, have also “mistakenly trained†many viewers into thinking they know how to react in the same situation. Additionally, there are too many folks that have guns but have not had the proper training (or refresher) for proper handling, including the laws regarding use and personal safety. And by the way, I’m a gun owner.
Yes, Yes…..it’s all too easy to be the Monday morning quarterback — bottom line, the law and courts are not perfect, however, it IS the governing system. We must respect and rely on these trained professionals (police, fire, courts, etc) to do their job and to protect and serve.
A special thank you to the Richmond Police for prompt presence and handling of the situation!!! My thoughts and prayers go out to the each families of the three individuals involved.
In a matter of moments, EVERYONE’s life has changed……..
I thank all of you who read my editorial.
To those who are offended, please allow me to clarify anything that might have been misunderstood.
The focus of my article is NOT to advocate for gun control, vigilantism, or hate. If you sincerely believe that people should be killed for stealing property, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind, but I’d like to know why you believe you are in god’s shoes.
We have many different values and morals, but a society that is fractured by unwholesome beliefs needs to have open and honest dialogue about the reasons why we have these beliefs.
I am very concerned about the victims of the car thief and the assailant. I have lived in one of the worst neighborhoods in South Florida for many years before coming to Richmond, so I am no stranger to street violence.
All that I am asking of my neighbors, which includes you because this is a small town, is that we think before we speak and consider all of the perspectives, factors, and our lack of knowledge of the truth about what went on both during the crime and before it took place.
If you are not saddened by the fact that a man is dead and another is in jail, then I am saddened not only for them, but also your apathy. I hope that any lack of clarity in my message will be understood by you, the reader, my neighbor. I hope you will come to my site and share your feelings, but if you must vent or make negative comments, have the integrity, honesty, and bravery to post your name and own your comments as I do. As I said before, I’ll publish your statements regardless of my opinion, withstanding a plethora of foul language.
Take care out there and God bless you.
We can’t continue speaking evil.
NBC12.COM
By Rachel DePompa – bio | email
“Witnesses say Eric Driver, 25 and a student at VCU, came out of his home to find his girlfriend being held at gunpoint by a masked thief who was attempting to break into her car. They say he rushed to her defense, shooting the man six times.”
What would you do?
I don’t believe that a gun has been found yet.
I have read several conflicting stories. Are any of CHPN reader’s witness to this? The news story I watched this morning said the man was unarmed. What is the truth here?
you have the right to bare arms but only if you are been threaten. who shot at who first should be the question? does it take six shots to defend yourself? we are killing people as if we are hunting animals are we not human. i think its sad.
If the would-be car thief pulled a gun then it would seem that the charge of 2nd degree murder for the defender of the woman would be inappropriate.
Also from NBC12.com , Eric Driver has been charged with second degree murder.
Here is an update for those wanting to know
http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/EASTGAT23_20090423-001004/263146/
it is a shame either way you look at it.
Shoot first – if I had a weapon – ask questions later. I suppose if this fine upstanding young burglar had not been armed I would call it excessive but if in fact he was armed, too bad hombre never point a weapon unless you intend to fire it and as I once was told by state policemen after firing a warning shot a two intruders attempting to break into my home in the country, if you point and fire a weapon you’d best shoot to kill, not to warn or to wound.
So it was at gunpoint? Seems odd that he’d be charged with second-degree murder in that case. I still don’t think shooting him was the right thing to do, though.
Sorry Tiny! I was moved by the link @ 21 and was distressed to think that someone would be disgusted by it.
It is not even clear at this point if the girlfriend was even present, much less whether the guy who was shot had a gun. The police aren’t saying.
Re: #17
Dj,
No actually my family has lived in the suburbs all their lives, and have never had their cars broken into, nor had a shoot-out 300ft from their house. Crime like this may happen in the suburbs, but not where im from.
Here’s a quote from the RTD that’s worth thinking about:
“Richmond Commonwealth’s Attorney Michael N. Herring said today that Driver was charged with second-degree murder instead of first-degree murder because the shooting was “more of an overreaction†than a premeditated killing.
Herring said it is illegal to use deadly force to protect property. “If someone’s stealing your property,“ Herring said, “call the police.“”
The young man “KILLED” was unarmed; he was shot in the back. Not once but several times. The dead man was allegedly breaking into a car, not robbing or confronting a young lady. Before we start passing judgment lets ask some basic questions, did the two men know each other, did the dead man have any type of relationship with the killer’s girlfriend, what is the relationship between all parties involved and is their more to this situation then we all are aware of.#44 yes, the shooter is the same man charged with assault a month ago.
I spoke with Rachel DePompa and she told me that they were working on an update to the story, so watch at 5 or 6. Hopefully, they will clear up all the descrepancies as it seems every news source in town has a different story.
#62 – best shoot to kill, not to warn or to wound ….(dumb if you don’t know the law). Bottom line, if have/can retreat to safety than that is what you are to do. Otherwise, “your ask questions later” will be from your prison cell wondering why didn’t you just wait.
Sounds like your state policeman may have been giving you advice (although poor) was regarding your home.
(A) If someone has broken into your home AND you are in it (and endangered), is one thing. (B) its another if you are outside and have/can retreat to safety.
(C) Then yesterday is something totally different… a vehicle parked on a public street… and the owner of the car, who was safely inside a residence…. choose to came out ON HER OWN to confront the thief … which led to “an altercationâ€â€¦ and the fatal shooting.
A sad series of bad choices made by all parties.
I just read all the comments appended to the RTD web coverage of this event (http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/EASTGAT23_20090423-001004/263146/)and am horrified by the rampant glee surrounding this death. Richmond is apparently full of people who think that deadly force is an appropriate reaction to property theft!
@71. “A sad series of bad choices made by all parties.” Soooooo true. Very tragic and heartbreaking.
They said it was “adrenalin”. In those moments, the shooter forgot that the object he was shooting at was human. That he was a son, brother, uncle, maybe even father. In that moment, he forgot his humanity.
We all have moments of truth in our lives. Moments that call us to make the right decision. Moments that define our character.
“you have the right to bare arms but only if you are been threaten. who shot at who first should be the question?”
What? You should let someone shoot you before you shoot back?
Anyway, Its a shame all this happened. Maybe if our prisons weren’t full of nonviolent drug offenders then there would be room to lock up violent thieves for more than a month or two. Maybe criminals would think twice about robbing people if there were real consequences.
come on now i did not mean be an ass. all i’m saying is if you’re protecting yourself than do what you have to do, but in this case it was not like that he was been plain stupid he did not think he just reacted.
RE: 73′s “Moments that define our character”:
Absolutely right, Tiny, and said as well as it’s ever been by Hal Holbrooke playing Lou Mannheim in the movie “Wall Street.” To wit:
“A man looks in the abyss, there is nothing staring back at him. At that moment he discovers his character. That keeps the man out of the abyss.”
Unfortunately for both of our two perps in this case, the shooter’s lack of character threw both of them into the abyss.
I would add that the robber had a proportionately different yet morally similar choice to make when he decided to go for whatever caught his eye in that cute red car. His destiny, for better or worse, was also determined by his lack of character in his own moment of decision.
Life is full of unintended consequences; without them, things would get very boring very fast.
Never underestimate the potential consequences, good or ill, of a single action.
My guess is that, given how things are evolving legal-wise, Eric Driver may well be wishing he hadn’t pulled the trigger. However, for all of y’all who are condemning his actions, think realistically about the situation.
You are minding your own business on a bright sunny April day. You look out the window and see a guy in an EFFING SKI MASK breaking into your girlfriend’s car.
Do you stay safely inside and call the police? If so, you are on the phone with the dispatcher for 5 minutes, and then police arrive another 5-10 minutes after that to take “a report†from you. By which time Mr. Ski mask has taken girlfriend’s car and / or all of its contents and is long gone. The police will not catch ski mask. They will not recover the stolen property, nor will you ever see any of it again. And if you have lived in Richmond for any length of time, this is probably not the first time you’ve been a victim of this sort of crime – so you KNOW that once ski mask is out of sight, he’s free and clear and your stuff is gone forever.
So do you REALLY dial 9-1-1 and passively stand there watching the theft unfold through your window?
Or do you go out and attempt to stop the crime?
(I’m not necessarily advocating the use of deadly force in this situation, but I think it’s worth thinking realistically about this. Keep in mind that your actual reaction will likely be decided more at an instinctive / emotional / adrenaline charged level than by cool logical reason)
NOTE also: I am not criticizing the police… see my earlier comments about the police being undermanned and overwhelmed.
Police say Richmond shooting victim was unarmed (RTD 4/24/09))
You bet I would’ve gone out and tried to stop the guy- with my cell phone in hand talking to the RPD dispatcher the whole time. I’d have then followed the perp to let the cops know where to find him.
But shooting someone in order to protect a piece of property, any piece of property, is morally repugnant and should be universally condemned.
Now that we’ve learned with certainty that he shot an unarmed man, anyone who continues to defend the shooter’s actions deserves to be down in the city lock-up with him.
In response to Bullwinkle and other wannabe heroes…. yeah I charge right out into the unknown so that I can risk my life needlessly for a car which I pay monthly insurance premiums for so I can get nothing out of it.
@Bullwinkle – Yes, I REALLY dial 911, and I’m not sure calling 911 is really a passive solution. My wife and I are very lucky to be able to live quite comfortably, but there is NOTHING that I own that is worth killing or being killed for.
I’m sure the police would look for the person before wasting time talking to me while this thief gets away. After all, what would they learn from me that I would not give to the 911 operator (address, car location, description of thief)?
When we lived in the Fan, from our upstairs porch I saw someone breaking in to the back of my Jeep. A simple “Hey!” was all it took for this person to be on his/her way. Never did it cross my mind to charge out there and confront this person. Granted, I was pretty safely far away when I did this. Had it happened outside of my front door, I would not have taken that chance.
I was minding my own business on this bright and sunny April afternoon, too. I was lucky enough to see this 24 year old “bad guy” likely take his final breath. Since then, I’m still coming up empty on how to possibly justify gunning down someone in the street over stuff that was not important enough to someone to take out of their car and bring inside in the first place.
Maybe a bunch of CDs or whatever was in that car would mean that you or your family could eat for a few more days. Maybe it earns you some street-cred and keeps you just a little bit safer for a few more days. Maybe you can sell it cheap for some drugs that keep you out of pain for a few more days. May you just need a little more money to make rent to keep yourself under a roof for a few more days. People aren’t out in the middle of the day, in ski masks, breaking into cars because they’re bored or because they’re just bad people. They’re desperate. Whatever the reason, I’m SURE that this person did not deserve to die, in this violent way or otherwise.
It seems to be a pretty logical choice when it comes to property protection: buy insurance.
Something about this case is not sitting right with me. The shooting needs to be investigated thoroughly. Two young men, both in college and a girl. More to this case then meets the eye! What are the real relationships here? This is a case of over kill.
I’ve finally read the posts on here. And I have to ask myself, what would I do if I saw loved one being robbed.
In that moment and I had a gun, I think I would use. Now if I had chance to think about situation maybe I wouldn’t.
I guess that is why people really need to think about it before they buy a gun. I have a eldly neighbor and another nieghbor with two small children.
Well it looks like the shooter is going to be charged if the commonwealth attorney has anything do with it. You protect life but you do not protect property. No one needed to die in this and that is the shame because people who use guns make instant mistakes that last forever.
So… okay, a citizen has a right to protect himself and shoot someone who is committing a crime. If, then, I was at the scene and saw the thief being shot (which is a crime itself– a worse crime), and I was armed, I would then have the right to shoot the shooter, who has committed a crime and who has threatened me by releasing a hail of bullets in my vicinity. Then, if some other bystander was threatened by my gunfire/crime, they too (if they were armed) would have the right to shoot me…
Clearly, vigilante justice by armed citizenry is the key to making our neighborhood safer.
@81 Thank you for your calm, rational assessment of this situation.
I went to high school and middle school with Jamall Holman and from what I can remember he was always a nice upstanding guy. I haven’t talk to him since we graduated but from what the T-D article said, he was still getting his education and trying to better himself. I’m hoping that there is something missing from the story. Otherwise I guess he’d fallen under hard times and sorry that this had to happen.
If Mr. Driver’s lawyer is worth his salt, he’ll demand a change of venue in this case. I can’t believe how irresponsible our Commonwealth’s Attorney was in saying that it was a case of “overreacting.”
Mr. Herring is HIMSELF acting in the place of judge and jury and his statements as a public figure prejudice Mr. Driver’s chances at a fair trial. They’ll have to take this one out to the counties…maybe we should export our C.A. too. Rumor has it C.A. Herring has his eyes on a higher office; he won’t get my vote with the recklessness he’s displayed here.
I’m not talking at all about being a hero or a vigilante. I’m talking about trying to defend yourself / your property and not be a victim.
When I was growing up, my parent’s house was burglarized and we lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff – including family heirlooms that were irreplaceable. Among other things, my mom lost jewelry that had been given to her on her wedding, and my dad lost a silverware set that had been his mother’s. I’ve had my car broken into three times and stolen twice. Back when a bicycle was my only form of transportation, I had three bicycles stolen or stripped (and yes, they were all locked up). Which meant I had to walk to work at 4:30 am until I could save enough to buy another used bike.
In every case, I did the “right thing” filed my report with the police, and never saw me stuff again (or, in the case of my car, it was returned totally trashed and never worked properly again).
I will repeat that I am possibly the strongest ANTI-GUN person on the Hill. This situation illustrates perfectly why regular citizens should not have guns at all. However, I also know from experience that working your butt off to try to get ahead, only to have some punk steal your stuff over and over and over again – it gets old.
Day after the shooting I found a set of keys, faceplate to a good stereo, stereo remote, ipod charger and a feminine hygiene product under my front porch. There’s a sorority keychain attached to the keys.
I’m assuming the thief took these things from some girl’s car, realized they were useless to him and threw them away. If you lost this stuff, or know the girl that did, please let me know so i can return them. Otherwise I was going to turn it into the police.
Last night, my husband and I walked by (what I assume was) the memorial for the victim of the shooting. It seemed well attended and there were a number of police there. I initially thought that maybe they were there to prevent any vendetta altercations, but they seemed pretty solemn and though they were just noting yet another unfortunate death in CH/UH.
I walked by the vigil last night and didn’t recognize any neighbors from the immediate vicinity other than Alicia Rasin. Certainly we don’t know all the facts, but I do know the neighborhood grieves for all of the victims of Mr. Hollman’s choices that day. Mr. Driver and his girlfriend’s lives were forever changed by the circumstances he set in motion. If only the attendees of that vigil had been more vigilant prior to April 23rd.
I understand the need to grieve and perhaps even the need to grieve publicly if that is what you are accustomed to. I just question public grieving timed perfectly for the 6:00 news cycle.
Late here, but my opinion is that we serve a viewpoint best by coming from a personal perspective. If someone had a gun held to someone I loved, I would shoot them before they had a chance to hurt first. By drawing the gun, they entered the realm of risk. Just like if a bear broke into a cabin where I was staying. A me-or-them has been created. To me it’s a no-brainer.
In an ideal world, police could hyperspace instantly to the location of the conflict, but in the real world this ain’t so.
So why do we call the police anyway? To bring their gun, right? And I am just as smart and fit as any officer that I have ever met, really. I could potentially protect myself, right?
It’s a hard situation if the deceased is found to have been unarmed. And losing life for petty theft is pretty out of proportion. It should be kept in mind, though, that once someone starts creating a problem, like breaking into a car, they often quickly lose control of the outcome. Stuff escalates.
I wish the girlfriend had kept her distance in this situation.
I was just having lunch and I was thinking about this. I really was not feeling judgemental when I wrote that I wish the girlfriend would have made a different choice. I’m afraid that I might have come off that way, though.
Hard situation all the way around, and I do understand how people make choices in the heat of a moment, especially if they feel threatened. Part of being human.
Just wanted to clarify.
Shannon you say you’re “just as smart… as any officer” you’ve ever met, yet you’re not smart enough to get the facts before you spew forth.
The fact that Hollman was unarmed was established only a couple of days after the incident.
“No brainer,” indeed…
Shannon, I agree with you. But you are wrong about being “just as” smart and fit as an officer. You are probably MORE. If your IQ is too much above average, it actually disqualifies you from being a cop.
I taught Jamall Holman when he was a senior at Hermitage, and I knew him to be kind, helpful, and tenderhearted. He sat with me many times before lunch and during study period recounting how his grandparents raised him–always emphasizing how much he loved and was grateful for having his grandma. He wrote poetry and was extremely sensitive. I cannot imagine that he was out there randomly breaking into cars. There has to be more to this story.
#95 – Not really sure what you are talking about, but if I offended you I apologize.
Nice use of the word “spew” though. One of my faves. For real.
[...] in the East End this year – one a month since the beginning of the year. Even with this killing and the recent high-profile shooting in Union Hill, murder is still down in the End End this year from last (and last year was a good year). Last year [...]
[...] crime (36 incidents reported in 2008 compared to 59 in 2009). Of the 9 violent crimes reported 1 was a Homicide, 1 was a Rape, 4 were Aggravated Assaults (Domestic), and 3 were robberies, 1 of which has been [...]
Its now going on 8 months since the shooting death of Jamall Holman and I am still having a hard time dealing with this lost! I’ve read all the comments people have been leaving about Jamall, and it breaks my heart to hear what some people THINK they know about this situation. So I will set the record straight for those WHO THINK they knew…. Jamall was not armed and never held the “girlfriend” at gun point…. In fact he had his back turned and was running away while being shoot in his back many times… He had no gun on him !!! (which means he wasn’t there to hurt ANYONE!!!) This was in act of (HATE) on Eric Drivers behalf. He killed Jamall because he simply had the opportunity too… Come on people think about it….. Who robs a car during the day ??? (could there POSSIBLY be more to this story thats not being told??????) I personally knew Jamall for years very well and I would like to say on his behalf that he was a very sweet and loving person…. Please dont pass judgment on someone that u know nothing about…
**To know Jamall was to LOVE him !!!! THATS THE HONEST TRUTH** Nothing was worth his life !!! Bottom Line !!!
I remember when this happened; I know someone who lives right at the scene, and I was dating a cop at the time, so I feel that I was as abreast of the situation as anyone else in Richmond who paid any sort of attention.
The amount of sympathy for the thief who was shot speaks well of the temperament of those who chose to respond. You all seem like nice folks. But you are missing one simple, and to me, glaringly obvious point.
The man who died would not ask for your sympathy; he was taking things from you. Things you work for and deserve. He was a leech; a carbuncle on the a$$ of society. His situation is what HE made of it. It was HIS fault he was in pain from drug use, or about to be thrown out of his apartment, or if he was simply desperate. He has no right to take something of yours from you.
When you make that step; when you decide to break to social contract and steal, you get what you deserve most of the time. However, sometimes, you get worse. You just might lose your life over the 13 dollars those CDs will get you at Plan 9.
I do not advocate killing someone over petty larceny. Not at all. But he took his chances and rolled the dice, and he lost big-time. He ran into someone a bit mo’ gangsta.
Eric Driver will get what he deserves. I will not ask you to give sympathy to him; you won’t But ask yourself what was going through Mr. Driver’s mind. Maybe it was Mr. Driver who was about to be kicked out of him home, or was addicted to drugs, or just a nutball. Is that what it would take for you to have any sympathy for him?
I don’t know if an armed citizenry is the answer or not. But I know if more people thought they stood a pretty good chance of catching some lead when contemplating whether or not to take something of mine, I’d have all my stuff, and maybe there would be less victims, (or victims as many of you seem to see them.)