October 13, 2008
6th District school board candidate Burton calls for action on violence at Armstrong
Sixth District School Board candidate Art Burton has called the recent disruptions at Armstrong High School “an emergency situation” and calls for both anti-gang measures and “a town hall forum to discuss violent and disruptive behavior at Armstrong and seek recommendations in resolving these issues on the community level”.
Thursday - October 9, 2008
Contact Art Burton
at 804-467-6408 for more information.An emergency situation is developing at Armstrong High School in Richmond’s East End:
gang activity is disrupting the educational process.
The crisis at this school undermines confidence in our school system, risks the lives of teachers and students alike, and threatens public safety in Richmond’s communities.
Last Tuesday, while out canvassing the community, I was approached by a woman and asked what I could do to help her granddaughter get out of Armstrong High School immediately. She explained to me about fights and code Reds and teachers and principals being assaulted. She was adamant that this child was terrified of the violence when she should only be worried about her studies. On Friday, I learned from a community leader in Whitcomb Court and she asked about me what could be done for her grandson, who attended Armstrong high School and was frightened and no longer wanted to attend school. Monday morning I called a friend whose neighbor teaches at Armstrong and he shared with me that he was going to the school board meeting that night to support her as she intended to speak out about being assaulted and cursed and the fact that the administration could not get the situation under control. I attended the school board meeting and watched as teachers stood before the school board crying and begging for help because they are not being protected well enough to do their jobs.
There is something terrifying going on at Armstrong high school. Young men and women from different communities have formed into gangs and are waging war over tops of the heads of both teachers and students who are trying participate in the educational process. These problems are getting worse, and without intervention we will lose teachers, students, and possibly lives. The entire Richmond community must look to Armstrong high school and resolve the issue.
I am asking that the community of Richmond join me as I take the following steps:
Contact the Commonwealth Attorney and Attorney General’s Office for the Commonwealth of Virginia and request these entities immediately target Armstrong high School for GRIP resources and the removal of gang presence.
Contact the Mayor of the City of Richmond and request that he instruct the Chief of Police to take immediate action to restore order at Armstrong high school and instruct Communities’ Intelligence Units to follow gangs back to the neighborhoods and eliminate the problem.
Contact the Richmond City Council of PTAs and Richmond Tenants Organization to request their collaboration in holding a town hall forum to discuss “violent and disruptive behavior at Armstrong and seek recommendations in resolving these issues on the community level.
WE MUST ACT NOW!
Contact Art Burton
at 804-467-6408 for more information.
I’m glad someone’s responding like this. I saw Wade Ellegood on the news last week and he was thoroughly “eh” about it. If ever there was a “jumping up and down and demanding action” situation, this is it. Kids can’t even eat in the cafeteria together?
I just emailed a link to this post to various Richmond leaders, candidates, etc. Let’s hope we see some action quick.
I can tell you that Don Coleman has been taking this situation very seriously. He has experience working with gang reduction.
We have a tentative meeting scheduled at Boys and Girls Club in Fairfield Court Thursday at 6:00pm.
We want to invite concerned community members. I’ll post more later.
I’d be interested in knowing how the consequences for these students, the ones involved in gang-related violence, differs from the regular-misbehavior-type punishment. If a student punches another person, for example, and it is gang-related, does that student get the same disciplinary action that a student who is just in a “regular” fight? Maybe they could lose their get-out-of-jail free card that goes along with being a juvenile, and be treated like an adult? Could be a deterrant. I guess the admins would have to be able to prove that gang-relation to the incident, and I have no idea how hard that may be to do.
I don’t know. Just kind of brainstorming possible solutions here. I know that if a crime can be labeled as a “hate” crime, the penalties can be more severe.
The situation at Armstrong is a reflection of what is happening in our communities on regular bases. The approaches that most people take to deal with this type of situation assume the problem lay with a deficit in the person, without taking into account the complexity of young people’s lives or the environment in which they still have to function. The way the community responds to such incidents often results in disappointing results. I guess what I’m trying to say is don’t use the situation at Armstrong as a political platform unless you are really prepared to make some decision that will not be very popular with some and ready to think differently, act differently and act in a way to make sure the end goal for our youth is to be successful adults.
You can not address this problem without the influences of families, communities and schools.
I, personally, don’t see this kind of behavior as being a deficit, or deficiency. And I think that most of us are compassionate enough to understand that the root is complex. And while not a deficit, per se, it is indicative of some character issues, whatever the source of those may be. It is also a very real behavioral problem, en mass.
The adults in this community must meet it with the appropriate amount of force in order to protect those kids who still care about becoming successful adults, as you state.
I just wonder if your post is yet another reflection of a system that chooses to overcomplicate the potential response by playing counselor at the expense of the community at large. The bottom line is that the kids who are just trying to learn are being terrorized, and that appears to be an emergency situation. Maybe it is about time that the administration stop trying to be so understanding and make it more uncomfortable to misbehave than to behave. The stakes are high for the students who are just trying to do what they are there to do.
Torey - I would like to know what you mean when you talk about potentially unpopular decisions - very specifically, please. And I would also like to hear your definition of thinking and acting differently.
With all due respect, the extraordinarily general nature of your response is coming off to me as rather hopeless and futile. It looks like giving up. I mean, of course this requires the intervention of families, communities, and schools. That’s obvious. And it’s also a very real call for a great deal of police presence, if you ask me. Maybe even hired security.
Is there anything more important than ensuring the personal safety of the kids, first and foremost? Torey - do you have any actual ideas toward solution? Isn’t this where the leadership rubber meets the road?
Just went here http://chpn.net/news/2008/05/27/a-sit-down-with-torey-edmonds/ and found this:
“Edmonds said that it is time to stop blaming the socioeconomics of the students or the lack of parental involvement for school performance. In her words, the schools need to take ownership of thier jobs and teach the kids that come in. She ended the conversation by giving everyone a question to ask of herself or any of the other candidates when solutions/ideas are put forth: “What does that look like in real life?”. Hold the candidates accountable before and after the election, she urges.”
Interesting contrast to her post #5 above, eh? So if the schools need to stop whining and teach, how is she going to help them do that in a crisis situation? She says we should hold the leaders accountable, right? How does she propose to support the school under attack?
Torey – the tone of your post resonates to me as, “You just don’t understand. Forget it.” It has a throw-away quality, perhaps unintentional. Either way, it sure doesn’t represent my viewpoint in the least. And I vote, for what that is worth.
I like Mr. Burton’s outline of response to the problem. It validates the worthiness of the community with its strength and specificity. It has hope through action laced all the way through it.
Don Coleman, what do YOU have to say about how to handle Armstrong High?
The responses to this situation would be laughable if the situation weren’t so dire. Unfortunately, this is not a new problem. Reach out to other school communites, in other states, and ask how they have handled the problem, what works, and what doesn’t. Does RPS not have zero tolerance policies? Public alternative schools for violent students? School resource officers? If so, these tools are obviously not being used. If these tools are not available, why not?
This is why my kids go to Private School!
I understand that I am financially lucky enough to be able to provide private education to my kids (at least until my husband loses his job in February…thanks Qimonda!!!), and that many people do not have that option. Until something is done about the situation in Armstrong, and every other schools out there, our children aren’t safe. I’m not saying that I have any clue as to what to do, but something HAS to be done. And Shannon, I agree with your interpretation of Torey’s post. Whether the intention was for it to sound like nothing can be done about the situation, an “until you can fix society nothing can or will change so why push for it” sort of reaction, that’s how it came across to me. And what sort of “regular bases” was being referred to; was that first, second or third base?
I know that here on CHPN we attach grammar waaaaay too much, but to get my vote you do have to know the difference between basis and bases
This situation at the school is merely a reflection of what is going on in the community. Too many of us have been blind to the gangs that infest Church Hill, Fulton, Northside, and Blackwell. Parents need to be aware and neighbors need to be aware.
No Child Left Behind addresses only the academic measure for a school. The elimination of school violences needs to be recognized as a contributing factor to the failure of the schools and as a major reason parents choose not to send their children to RPS. We need to consider all options to eliminate gang violence in the school, including re-locating highschools out of high-crime areas.
I realize I used language very similar to Torey’s; this was inadvertent, as I only skimmed the comments.
I think the community has to take a tough approach to gangs, beginning with ending the denial that they exist. Parents NEED TO KNOW where their children are and no child should be on the streets after curfew. You need to know who they hang out with and who they are chatting with on Bebo and MySpace. These efforts not only help prevent gangs and build the community, they may save your child’s life.
I know it’s tough; I am a parent of a pre-teen and I know I may soon face a challenge. But, regardless, as a parent, I cannot let my child run wild.
Throughout history, one fact has held true: Check yourself, or you WILL get checked. It’s nothing new. Freedom through self-discipline. You would much rather take care of that yourself, than have the system get involved, right?
Somewhere this message has gotten lost. For whatever reason, whatever distractions that are present, this message is not getting passed along generationally in some communities.
It is our obligation to ensure that if it is not taught at home, it is taught at school. These kids can stop behaving poorly at any time. But if they choose to behave like menaces to society, they face jails, institutions and death. There is no good end result. To sugar coat this fact is nothing short of irresponsible, to the point of becoming contributory.
It is our obligation to invest the energy required to get this across, even if it requires calling in the military. Obviously some families need the assistance. If I were in a situation where my son was off the hook, I would have to welcome the intervention, because clearly what I was trying to pass along was not sinking in, right? Discomfort is the greatest catalyst out there.
And don’t think that the kids that need protection are not noticing how much they appear to be worth, either. That’s a huge part of the tragedy.
You can’t even see the wound until you stop the bleeding. If swift action is not taken, I fear that we will see a lot worse than kids having to eat lunch in classrooms.
I am very concerned about the Armstrong High School situation. I have talked with students,adult volunteers, elected officials and other citizens with conflicting perspectives of what is actually going on at Armstrong. It is clear to me that this could actually be s call to us all as a community to come together to do whatever it will take to help AHS be all it can be. We(the community) have an opportunity to help our young people learn to resist violence and seek peace. During my initial attempt to compose this response; I received a call from the President of the Richmond Crusade for Voters. Our conversation led to the possibility of a joint effort that would involve a number of stakeholders. The focus would be solutions and actions that will speak to the immediate issue and the long term health of Armstrong High School. The health and success of Armstrong High School is a priority that I will embrace and ask the community to join in the process. Our children need our help. Details will follow as developed. Please feel free to call me at 804-339-0745.
Don -
If teachers are crying in public over the situation, I’m afraid that we may have already squandered our mulling-things-over time. What are you going to do right now?
None of us would tolerate this turbulence in the workplace for more than a couple moments. It’s a wonder that these teachers show up at all, given the conditions that are communicated.
I know I am writing a lot on this topic. I have a very personal connection to this type of thing. I still own my white leather Pony high-tops from Hackensack Middle School, circa 1982. They have blood stains all over them, and only some of those stains are mine. It was a very violent time in my life. I hardly came out unscathed.
What these kids is going through sucks royally. I am asking again what is being done today to halt the progress.
Is there security patrolling at Armstrong? Security is SOP for almost every HS and has been for years. Are there metal detectors? Should be.
What about Hope in the Cities?
Art Burton should contact Tee Turner at:
http://www.hopeinthecities.org/richmond-office
Hope in the Cities does conflict resolution and reconciliation dialogue.
Gangs going through conflict resolution and reconciliation dialogues?
Are you f’ing kidding me?
Similar things were going on at George Wythe on the south side. In response, the School Board entered into an agreement with the Center for Neighborhood Enterprise to set up a Violence Free Zone at Wythe. The same thing certainly can be done at Armstrong. See minutes of the August 4 school board meeting. Go to NEC’s website http://www.cneonline.org/pages/Latest_News
Art, I will call you about this later.
Bert
Bert, That looks good. How is it working over at Wythe so far?
Don -
I just went to your website, and saw that your youngest daughter goes to MLK Middle. With what you know about Armstrong High, would you feel comfortable with sending her along to Armstrong? To clarify, if it were today that she would be attending, would you let her go?
My son Dolan is in 8th grade and Armstrong is our zoned High School. There is no way he is going there next year, if we still live in Richmond. It’s not a race thing, either. My dad lives in the Caribbean, and has for years. We spend lots of time in places where we are the only white people. I actually have grown pretty accustomed to answering to, “Hey white lady.” Dolan is not fazed by being in the minority either – also used to it. That middle school that I attended was mostly black, too, and the crossfire strife that I found myself involved in was rarely because I was white – the minority. Not the issue.
So, no. It’s not a race thing that I am not planning to send my son to Armstrong. It is the hopelessness that we are seeing here, as if we have all the time in the world to correct this problem. Now is not the time to have a meeting about having a meeting about having a meeting. What would be happening if it were Godwin?
I was that kid who was just trying to do my thing, and found myself having to defend myself in the girl’s bathroom, in the halls, in the cafeteria. I had a silver chain violently ripped off my neck. That stuff changes a person. I’m not happy to admit this, but I wouldn’t suggest sneaking up on me, even today. No intellectualizing, philosophizing, or further education will grow that out of a person. School should be safe, especially if home is not. We are crafting the future. What could be more serious?
There is a High School Information Fair tonight at 7 PM at St. Mary’s Catholic School on Gayton. We are attending. I know it is really short notice, but more info can be found here: http://www.saintmary.org/Flyers/AR-M620N_20081009_133557.pdf Reps from all different schools will be there, both public and private.
So Don, would you send your daughter to Armstrong, if it were today that she were old enough? Is that the kind of environment you want her to spend time in? If not, then I cannot fathom voting for you, honestly.
You are competing for a position that would make all children yours.
Bert - Thanks for posting, but unless I am missing something, this site does not really explain what the violence free zone means.
Will you please explain how this zoning affects the situation, in real life? Is it increased penalties? Is it positive reinforcement?
Please help us understand this solution more clearly.
Thanks.
Upon closer reading - from Bert’s link: “It will be carried out in the school by CNE’s Richmond community partner organization, called The ROC (Richmond Outreach Center). Three top Richmond police officials and The ROC’s executive director and program director traveled to Milwaukee in mid-August to see the VFZ in action there. (8/19/08)”
In case you were not aware, The ROC is a church. For all of those concerned about separation of Church and State. See here: http://www.richmondoutreachcenter.com/ This is not being subjected to overhearing gospel music on the radio in the school office. This is the integration of hardcore evangelists into a government problem. This does NOT look good. This looks horrible.
These are the kids who dress up as ghouls and parade around Shockoe Bottom on Friday and Saturday nights asking the partiers if they want to go to Heaven or Hell, and if they are ready to accept Jesus to ensure their salvation rather than burn for eternity. Had a nice show sitting on the patio at Cafe Gutenberg one night.
What is going on here? Are you kidding me? Totally inappropriate, and getting scarier by the minute.
Come ON Richmond. Get it together.
What happens in RPS when students are involved in gang-related violence, banking or any kind of group fighting , a process that RPS refer to as “paneling” or discipline hearing. The students involved get suspended for a few days and when they return to school they attend a different school. Difficult students are paneled from one school to another all the time. Paneling is nothing more than playing musical chairs with these students.
(I can’t go into to much detail, but I will try to make my point)
The Police, Justice Services, Probation and Parole, Courts, Truancy, Case Managers and the Parents, knew about the conflict that had been brewing all summer long. At what point do everyone sit down and plan for the transition back to school? When do we talk with the schools about what has been going on all summer long? At what point do we say those students can not go back into a regular school setting? We got to think and act differently when it comes to dealing with students that reap havoc in our schools.
You are absolutely correct the adult must meet this problem with the appropriate force by demanding that our children are not exposed to this type of violence.
I don’t feel more police presence in the schools is the correct solution; we need to deal with the problem. If a student’s behavior and actions interfere with other students who are trying to learn, that student needs to be place in an alternative setting.
Tiny you are absolutely right Parents must know where their children are, who they are hanging out with and who they are chatting with on Bebo and MySpace.
If there are gangs in the neighborhood, there will be gangs in school. We must eradicate gang activity at all levels.
Watch what goes on in your block, watch your kids. Do not hestitate to call the police if needed; they even have a special gang division and they want to hear from you. Educate yourself. Do not let your children glorify thug life - teach them better.
Shannon,
Good luck at the meeting tonight; I hope you find a good fit for you and your family there. Please let us (especially the ones running for Offices who are involved here)know what else is out there, be it better or not. I cannot imagine sending one of my kids to Armstrong. I’m not saying that there aren’t good, well-intentioned teachers, students and parents involved there, but they obviously aren’t having a whole lot of successes there.
And as far as ROC, that scares me even more than Armstrong! It is one thing to choose a parochial school, you know religion will be a factor (and counter or reinforce that at home). But this is completely inappropriate for a Public school.
Other religious organizations volunteer in RPS without proselytizing, for example, the Micah Intiative http://richmondhillva.org/what/micah.html . As long as they are not preaching in the schools, let them help. The laws that apply to public school staff also applies to volunteers and tutors. If I’m not mistaken, many of these volunteers are showing their beliefs through action. (*note the religion in school I had written about on previous threads did not come from religious organization volunteers but from RPS staff)
To all those who do not know them, Art Burton, Torey Edmonds, Don Coleman, and Bert Berlin have through the years, served our communities, schools, parents, and children without pay. What they all have in common is that they do care and do take action.
Shannon:
Check out All Saints Catholic School in North Side:
http://www.allsaintsric.com
There are a lot of happy parents and students there. Not that far, on North Side on Noble.
I wish you good luck and understand your frustration. Your posts are impassioned and get to the heart of it. I to, experienced similar stuff in HS. Kids should not have to go through hell because of the Future Criminals of America.
Mr. Berlin:
Brother Please! Violence free zone, my ass. Do you know how many politicians put up “Drug Free Zone” and “Neighborhood Watch” signs? What a cop out and totally ineffective. Get a clue, bud. That’s just a way to opiate the masses and get people to think that you’re doing something. I guess we know what we can expect from you IF you serve on the RPS school board.
Ms. Edmonds:
You said, “I don’t feel more police presence in the schools is the correct solution; we need to deal with the problem. If a student’s behavior and actions interfere with other students who are trying to learn, that student needs to be place in an alternative setting.”
I agree with you to a point. The problem, as Shannon points out, is that the good kids don’t have that time. The reality is that an alternative setting is going to come too late for many. In the meantime, there needs to be a strong police presence in the violent schools until there is resolution. Fight fire with fire. Tax dollars well spent, in my opinion.
I have a very good friend who has worked in the juvenile penal system for 20+ years, particularly with young males. She evaluates kids to determine where they belong in the system (detention, mental hospitals, adoption, etc.)
She is pretty much convinced that most of these young offenders are f’ed. Even at age 6 years. The stories she tells would make you ill. The point is, the violent kids are f’ed. Lets not worry so much about their welfare. Let’s worry about the good kids, and try to make a new way for future generations starting with pre-schools, early intervention & support services like CHAT.
HS is not the time to make nice with these asshole kids - it’s too late. I say throw the book at them - they’re gonners. How about using one of the anticipated closed school buildings to incarcerate these kids until the penal system takes over the job?
Gray: I have no doubt that this group that you mention has served our community with the best of intentions, but you know what they say, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
Maybe there’s a reason why they have not been paid? Why do they seek payment now?
I correct myself in that I realize that school board members are not paid, but I still wonder how they feel that they can be any more of a power broker in the quagmire RPS than in the grass roots efforts that they were involved in. I don’t think that they can.
Hillkid, SB members are paid around $10,000.
I would ask the candidates why they chose to serve their communities, neighborhoods, schools for free.
hillkid: did you go off your meds again?
Would you advocate locking up every kid who gets in fights in Henrico? Hanover? Or is it just the inner city kids? Your friend is right. The problems in our schools are largely social ills, symptoms of societal problems, mostly of economic origin. And what do you propose we do once they get out of prison?
Once again, I stand corrected, they are barely paid.
Still, altruism usually has little to do with politics or what I see on these pages about the candidates. They served for free to rise to positions of power (however delusional or cuckold). That’s how it’s done.
The questions have been asked already. I don’t see anything enlightening.
RE: post 24 - Problem kids are sent around to all different schools? Is this what I am understanding? Why, to spread the love?
How are those kids supposed to get an education? There is a through-line to curriculum that would be completely askew.
Even if I am a well-trained bank teller at a SunTrust, is it really reasonable to expect me to have any kind of success if I am moved to Wachovia, given a few days off, and then moved to a Bank of America, and then back to SunTrust, but now a different branch, and on and on… How is this a successful approach when it comes to educating the problem kid?
And if educating the problem kid is not important enough to allow him or her to continue with a curricular agenda, what is the point of keeping them in school? Is this a holding pen? Day care? What are they doing there? Reminds me of moving a bunch of peas around on your plate that you have no intention of eating. Why bother?
I bet these kids think the ever-first-offence slap on the wrist is hilarious. No wonder they are laughing in our faces. Why not save the theatre and just push them out of the comfort zone? They can always get their GED later, if they decide that education is important to them. Hear them well. They are saying, with their behavior, that at this point they couldn’t care less about learning.
Why not treat them like the big boys and girls that they want to pretend to be? At least then the rest of the kids might stand a chance at relaxing enough to learn a thing or two.
Shannon:
Sorry, just realized that your son is in 8th grade. Too late for All Saints.
Ditto on your post #32.
Cut these kids loose, save the good ones. It’s too late for the man-child thugs.
And regarding the ROC, I know members. And you can too. Just go into any Love of Jesus Thrift Store. They run them. Those folks will tell you to your face that their number one ticket to salvation is witnessing. There is not a snowball’s chance in you-know-where that they would not be using any form of contact with troubled youth, or anyone for that matter, to turn them on to **The Word**.
I’m Catholic, but as an American I firmly believe that injecting the ROC into this situation is absolutely heinous. Bert, I would love to hear your rationale on how this could possibly be appropriate.
I say, let the ROC visit the jails, where the inmates can decide if they would like to participate in a conversation about spirituality. They may be more willing, also, once they have had a spicy taste of consequence.
Thanks, Hillkid, for the suggestion. I’ve heard good things about All Saints, too.
Dolan likes Appomattox because he is really into writing. Too bad it is like 5000 miles away. Maybe I will make him invent a cannon over the summer that I can use to shoot him to Petersburg every morning.
I kind of like Open.
hillkid, All Saints is k- 8th grade. Not a high school solution.
For those interested in helping the good kids with no other choice but to attend Armstrong, call Art Burton and the other contacts on his list.
Sorry, I didn’t see your comment, hillkid.
I think the high school situation is a major problem Richmond is facing. If your child is an academically exceptional student, you may apply for Open High and Governor’s school, or Community High School. There is no guarantee that every student that applies will be accepted, nor is there enough room to enroll all interested students.
Now if your child is average academically, there is Open Enrollment and NCLB. The schools that apply here are Armstrong, Huguenot, Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, and George Wythe (noting that you can only use NCLB if your zone school does not meet accredition). Again, there is no guarantee.
And what if your child wants to play sports, like football or basketball? Only the above listed schools have sports programs, but if you are accepted into Governors School, Open, or Community you can be bussed to another schools sports program.
I would like to see a “regular” highschool, much like the ones most of us attended. A HS that support gifted academic programs as well as the average student, a high school that offers a full sports program in addition to other academic and artist programs (such as drama, etc.)
The current system divides the students into “smart kids” and “average kids”, into to “safe” schools and “violent” schools.
The sad thing is that “average kids” or students who do not test well have no choice but to attend “violent” schools. People with means enroll their children in private schools or move to the counties if their children are not excepted into the good high school programs. Tiny, TJ has a small IB program. No doubt, Richmond desperately needs more choices at the middle and high school levels. Who came up with the idea to house over a thousand predominately poor students in one school? It would be easier to control smaller populations of students and have more one on one time with them.
Creative magnet schools that accept in-zone students first would be a plus. It’s happening in places like NY, Mass, and DC. This old system here in Richmond isn’t working in all ends of town.
I would love a new high school to be built (or placed in a renovated building) that is located is a safe neighborhood. Armstrong and Wythe are a couple of schools located in very dangerous neighborhoods; their location alone precludes many people from wanting their child to attend these schools.
I don’t see it as “bad” kids or “good” kids. They are all scared, no doubt. Even some of the adults are scared. This seems to be a fact. The kids that are acting out need help, sure. But obviously the methods that are currently implemented do not seem to be helping – pushing them around from school to school, in effect, tolerating the nonsense.
The primary focus of school is learning. That needs to stay in the forefront. The source of the disruptions needs to be eradicated from the environment so that the learning can continue, otherwise we have a bunch of scared, underprivileged adults who are also unable to function in the world and support themselves. Smart people who look and act like dummies. That serves to do nothing more than perpetuate the problem. I will go as far as to say that this tells ALL of the kids that they are disposable members of society because they come from a certain part of town. How is that positive or beneficial? The problem kids need help, too. I just don’t think school is necessarily the place for them to get it if at the expense of all others. It’s not mean to put our foot down; it’s mean NOT to.
If the primary focus should be learning, and folks are behaving as obstacles to that primary focus, they have forfeited their rights to that somewhat cushy time in a person’s life – high school, a time when all they really need to do while they are there in that building is focus on studying so that they can equip themselves for the future. It’s really not that hard. Their job is being students. They are not doing their job. They are fired. Not complicated.
I honestly don’t think that this warrants giving up on them as humans. The bottom line is, though, that you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Their willingness to participate is key. Willingness is most often come to through discomfort.
First, make the schools safe for the masses by bringing in the police, the military, the National Guard. Put the troublemakers on notice. Let them know that they are, from here on out, walking on thin ice. Clown time is over. You got one foot out the door, honey – whatcha gonna do? They are far from stupid. They are smart enough to be playing the system as we speak. Let them know it is their choice. These are the new rules, and the ball is in their court. I’d be very surprised if they were surprised. It would probably bring a new respect, even.
Then address the situation with the kids who need extra help to learn how to function without violence. They need to see that there is a payoff for that - leaders who are living the dream, and have what they want – money, power, a cool life. There have to be solutions for those kids, too. But first, stop the bleeding, by any means necessary.
Let’s get creative. How can we make a space for the highly at-risk to recover, too? Everyone needs a haven. How do we design one for the ones who need extra help, positive reinforcement, peace education training? What about that spot on Venable, around 23rd somewhere – looks like an old abandoned school… I’m just throwing it out there. I don’t even know what that building is, or used to be, but it’s got weeds growing up all around it - looks abandoned. You know where I am talking about? If they flunk out of there, we know we have done what we could and can surrender them to the jails, the institutions, and unfortunate death. Tragic Darwinism.
If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results, then the situation at Armstrong is straight-up insane. Positive intent will keep us on the right path.
Come on, Richmond. Get cutting edge. Meet fire with fire, and do it now.
Yeah, All Saint’s just goes up to 8th grade…but we have been very happy there. For any parent looking at their options, I would highly reccommend it! Not only is their tuition totally reasonable compared to most private schools out there (even other Catholic ones), but I also get a break on that tuition if I can get 5 other families to sign up!!! Seriously though, I can’t say enough good stuff about the school and staff.
I have to agree with hillkid (post #28). Kudos buddy! Why try to “rehabilitate” and educate these asshole demon spawn children? Zero tolerance! We need to do all we can to ensure that those who are there to learn and make something of themselves are able to use that opportunity to their advantage. These so called children who are causing all the problems have been given the opportunity and thrown it away. They don’t deserve to be in the school system yet they aren’t removed. Who in their right mind would think that sending them home for a few “days off” will change their ways? Please! Lock ‘em up and throw away the key. Focus on the children that are making the effort, want to learn, and want to make something more of themselves. Whatever the cause of all this is…socioeconomic or whatever, who gives a shit (certainly not the demon spawn)? That isn’t the issue here. The issue here is that kids that are trying to learn and do something with their lives, the teachers that are making the effort to teach them, and the parents that are supporting these kids are being derailed, threatened, and put in harms way but the others that are not worth it. Maybe prison can rehabilitate these criminals and maybe not…why should we care about them?
We do have “havens”, like Elk Hill http://www.elkhill.org/mission.html This is the school my neighbor’s kid goes to. He has been troubled for awhile and he was sent there. A bus comes to pick him up and I am pretty sure it does not cost much, if anything.
Now, would you want your kids to attend a “police state” school? I am not saying it is not needed, I am just saying that it doesn’t do much to entice new students to the school. I would still choose the safe school in the safe neighborhood, even if that means out of Richmond.
Too bad they can’t turn the Art Center downtown into a performance art magnet high school. Or what about all that unused space called the Richmond Convention Center? The beauty of downtown is that it is on the bus lines.
The Department of Labor’s Job Corps program is a proven system to assist disadvantaged youth in developing social skills, employability skills, and GED attainment. It is a residential program for students age 16-24 y/o. This program was developed as part of President Johnson’s Great Society and is designed to serve young people who have a consistent record of failure. Currently there are 120 centers nationwide with only 3 located in Virginia. The nearest being in Amherst. Students may apply to attend and if accepted all costs are covered and the student receives a twice monthly stipend. The cost to the taxpayer is more than off-set by the child becoming a successful taxpayer themself.
Richmond is such fertile ground for the development of a Center. Check out the Job Corps site:
http://jobcorps.dol.gov/
Call Councilwoman McQuinn’s office and let her know that you support Job Corps for Richmond.
Tiny, I’m in agreement with you on the “police state” school…we can’t continue to give up freedoms in the name of security -that’s how we got the patriot act.
For a quick fix and safety, Armstrong should call the police on and expell drug dealers, students carrying knives and guns, and students who hit teachers…are they doing that? Does the school have security cameras? I know Holton elementary has them.
RE: 46 - Yes, I would prefer a temporary police state to buck-wild mayhem - any day of the week. Mayhem which I am pretty sure is not doing much to entice new students to the school.
Thanks, Zeb. I will call. If any town needs more of this stuff, it is here.
Okay, I see where you are going. But, what do we do with all those kids now out on the streets? There is no easy solution.
On the one hand, we criticize RPS for it’s zero tolerance policy that results in half of the kids out on suspension at any given time - tearing up the neighborhoods and causing their parents to miss work. And then we talk out of the other side of our mouths about locking them all up so we can focus on the good kids - as if the distinction is so clear when all of those in an out of control school like Armstrong get caught up in the nonsense (even the teachers). Make up your minds people.
Tiny - the kids on the streets is a separate issue, and an important one. But the fact that it would be another challenge for the community, requiring out of the box thinking, does not justify subjecting the non-offenders to their baloney.
Complacent thinking creates juvenile victims.
Kicking the “bad” kids out on the street is only going to increase the gang problem.
And the kids in these gangs are the cause of most of this fighting. Listen, I don’t know what to do. But there is no quick fix. If my child were in that school, I would abandon the school.
That is why I am saying that needs to be addressed, too, with different programs created with new ideas.
Nobody is saying there is a quick fix. And I like you, Tiny. But the attitude portrayed in your comment is pretty hopeless, too.
These are people. People who need help. But schools are not holding tanks for humans. They are educational facilities.
If kids need rehab, this is not the place for them.
okay, allow the non-offending students to leave Armstrong. Give them space at better schools and if there isn’t any space, give subsidies to private schools to take in low income students (in the poorest neighborhoods in Paris, France they do this). RPS must come up with a quick fix and a long term solution. I like my idea of a magnet performance art school downtown.
That sounds like a better idea.
But, still, I don’t think it’s the solution. It’s just another way of dividing up the schools into “bad” kids and “good” kids.
I don’t know. But until we can make the neighborhood safe, the gang problem will not go away and will continue to infest the schools.
Why choose flight over working within the confines that exist? Why not support Armstrong to be everything it can be by removing the obstacles to excellence?
The magnet school fix still leaves the well behaved kids who earn gentlemen’s C’s to contend with a bunch of chaos.
That looks like punishment to me.
That is very true, Shannon.
I re-read Burton’s news release above and I do believe he has outlined some of the best first steps to take.
Yes take Burton’s steps, that was said in a previous post.
Regarding flight…isn’t that what you all said you were going to do? No one on this thread is planning to send their children to Armstrong, so why can’t we give the kids there a chance to leave?
RE: 62 - Nope. I didn’t say I was going to flee. Flight implies that we would already be enrolled, and would duck out.
What I said was that I was going to make an informed decision to explore other options based on the current state of unrest, and the complacency of the leaders to act in a way that I see as successful. I also qualified it to say that the current state of unrest is really the ONLY reason that we are exploring other options.
I am not a martyr, and my child is not an experiment. So right now Armstrong is not an option that works for us.
However, that does not mean that I do not have an investment in being part of the solution, and a great deal of empathy for the folks that are currently enrolled. This is my community High School.
I disagree that the solution is to segregate the haves and the have nots, be that intellectual or monetary. I do believe that the school should be afforded the opportunity to shine in its own right by removing the criminal element.
This school has been dealing with the multi-tasking of handling extreme discipline problems for quite some time, while still trying to educate. I believe that it is quite possible that if we assist in removing that burden, this school’s success could fly off the charts. If these kids who are used to working amind a bunch of static are permitted to work free from it, who knows what heights they could achieve?
Let’s give them that opportunity by insisting on removing the political unrest. When and if I see that happening, I would be more than happy to consider send my son to be a part of its flourishing community.
I am not giving up hope that this could one day be a reality.
typo in 64. I meant RE: 63.
The eastend elementary schools have not suffered “political unrest”, so why did you choose not to use them? You’re not considering Armstrong.
I can’t remember a time Armstrong was a good option and I’ve been in this neighborhood off and on since 1967. Time for something new. Again we need to look at some progressive movements/schools in Mass, NY, DC, and NC.
I didn’t live in the East End when Dolan was in elementary. I lived in the fan. That’s why. He went to Fox.
You are correct. At this point, I am not considering Armstrong for the painfully detailed reasons already stated.
The fact that a person with such an long neighborhood history as yourself cannot remember a time when Armstrong was a good option only underlines the need for change there, now. These kids are our future leaders, future workers, or future thugs. This crisis points out that there could not be a better time to change things within the community.
What could possibly be a justifyable argument against doing what it takes to make this a safe place? I am just baffled by the resistance.
I don’t think anyone objects to making schools safe, we just have slightly different ideas on the quick fix and long term solutions. The quick fix: those students breaking the law -carrying guns and knives and beating up teachers - need to be removed from school. Install security cameras to help authorities spot gang activity. Mr. Hudson, principal at Holton, took care of a serious problem on school buses with surveillance cameras.
I sent out that press release for Art Burton (he wrote it, I edited). It’s really good to see the fruitful discussion that has followed. Let’s just hope this moves not only civic activists and candidates for office, but also school administrators and elected officials.
I’m also hoping that Art Butron gets elected to the School Board in the 6th district. I think he’s doing a great job of earning a positive reputation and a higher profile leading up to an election. But he’s going up against an entrenched political machine that cares little about issues and mostly about power. Chances are, on Nov. 5th, Ellen Robertson will try to deliver the election for her appointee, Chandra Smith.
Art needs your help to get 6th district voters asking themselves, “Is our school system good enough as it is?” Please give him a call at the number on the press release above.
Shannon, Shannon, Shannon ….
I was so hoping that if I ignored your near-hysterical call for a police state at Armstrong that you would settle down.
Frankly, I would like to see the members of the School Board and Central Administration step up to the plate on this one.
Why haven’t we heard ANYTHING from these so-called fearless leaders and “expert educators”? Oh, I know ….. they’re all sitting around trying to figure out what to do with that “darned” charter elementary school …. This shows you what their priorities are !!!
Reachem - you and I have absolutely no connection, so I am not sure why you would think that any behavior, or lack thereof, on your part would affect me in the least. It doesn’t. At all. And the patronizing is silly.
Police are an appropriate response to crime. And we are talking about crime. How is asking for that appropriate connection to come about considered hysterical? Stop trying to pick a fight, please. I’m not biting.
I do agree with you, though, that the silence on the part of the school officials is deafening.
Gray - you and I agree more than we disagree, I think. I think that there are numerous solutions that can be worked at the same time, without leaving innocent kids in the dust - my main priority. I’m sorry if I came off as trying to lock horns with you. That truly was not my intent.
Shannon,
We do have a connection. You far too frequently choose to make “personal” arguments with Gray. I called you on this last summer and I am calling you on it now. When you do it — every time you do it — you hurt your argument and you come off sounding petty and hysterical.
Reachem - Your paranoid assessment of lively debate does not qualify as a connection between you and me. Although your attempt to make one there was fodder for a good laugh.
And there was absolutely nothing personal about the conversation that was happening before you stepped in. And if there were, Gray does a very respectable job of speaking for herself. She is extremely smart and competent in her own right. Please try again.
There are more serious issues at stake than your self-imposed Community blog Robinhood-like behavior.
Any further attempt you make to address me will be ignored.
Fire away.
Whatever.
Anyway, my belief is the root of the problem is the crime in the neighborhood and the gang activity in the neighborhood. I do believe we can reach these young people - I see people do it every day - at church, on the ball field, and in the classroom. We need to ask every one to take their blinders off and recognize the problem. As parents, we need to step up to the plate to protect our children and our community.
Here’s the deal, folks. When Armstrong and Kennedy merged, RPS placed additional personnel in the school and in the community. The purpose of those personnel was to engage community in creative conflict resolution, to redirect energy into job and college placements and build community cooperation and pride.
Those additional personnel are no longer in place.
The School Board and RPS central administration need to get over to Armstrong and realize what their “budget cuts” have “purchased” in the East End.
Reachem may be on to something —
I understand that the new charter school is going to cost at least $2 million. I guess the School Board will have to take a little “something” from every school in order to find the money to pay for the charter.
You have a point there, GetReal.
The shame is that we already have great elementary schools. No one has come up with any thing to deal with the middle school/high school problems.
Shannon,
We already have a police-state in that school. Clearly, you haven’t been in the building and you do not know whereof you speak. You sound like George W. trying to whip everyone up into a frenzy.
Art Burton has put forward a sound plan. He’s been in the school, you haven’t.
I just got off the phone with the Principal of Armstrong. He informed me that there will be a Community meeting there on October 23rd at 6PM for anyone interested in attending. It’s a Thursday. I have a prior commitment, but I am going to try to break it to be there. Thought I’d pass the info along.
GetReal - The Principal at Armstrong did not share your view that it is a police state over there, nor did he feel one was necessary. That is good news.
I can’t help but clarify here, as well: You have no idea where I have and have not been. You do not know me either. I like your history in #75, and appreciate your insight on the topic, but suggest that you stay with information that you have a grasp on. My whereabouts and doings is not one of those topics. Thanks.
If there is a “police state” over at Armstrong, then why is like “Escape From New York?”
Sounds like every student and teacher for themselves, while the police stand aside and let it happen.
Why would anyone with a minimal amount of choice send their kid there?
Of course, he isn’t going to say that. RPS would fire him in a hot minute if he said anything of the sort. Don’t be ridiculous!
Someone needs to find out how many arrests there have been at Armstrong in the past year. How many times have the police rolled to our various high schools? How many out of school suspensions were there? How much staff time has been devoted to “law&order” issues vs. issue of instruction?
How many arrests have there been in our high schools? Compare that to the state. RPS excels in feeding that cradle to prison pipeline.
There are parents in this community who can’t get the principal at Armstrong on the phone. Did you tell him you want to send in the MILITARY to quell the violence? Is that why he took your call? If, he actually did and you aren’t just making that up.
Wow, some people get really nasty on this blog. I, for one, would NEVER send my kids to a school like that. Who knows if the disruptive and violent kids could be “saved”? They may or may not but a parents role is to protect their child, not worry about redemption for others.
RE 80: Actually, it was kind of weird in a cool way. I called, and he was the one who answered the phone. This was about 4:00. I thought that was a stroke of good fortune, too. Surprising. What are the odds?
I told him that I was an in-zone parent, and I have a son who would be in high school next year. I said that I would like to make an appointment for a tour.
I asked him a few questions, some about the perceived violence etc. He took my number and told me he would call me back to make the appointment. That’s when he told me about the meeting.
It was about a five minute conversation, and I very much enjoyed his demeanor.
#81: Right on!
#80: You wanna cool it, please? I don’t see how accusing Shannon of lying and being a military freak gets this conversation anywhere. Do you feel better now for being nasty?
Since you are asking the hard questions in #80, maybe you can “get real” and find out the answers for us and report back. You claim to know so much. Tell us the answers.
Shannon is the one who said she wanted to bring in the military. And, she readily confessed that she lied to the principal. There’s no way she’ll send her kid to Armstrong. She didn’t even send her kid to an East End elementary. She sent her child to FOX.
See Post #21 ……”My son Dolan is in 8th grade and Armstrong is our zoned High School. There is no way he is going there next year …”
She lied to the principal and has no shame about admitting it ….and, if you and Shannon don’t have answers to those questions I asked earlier, MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR GETTING ANSWERS instead of expecting me to hold your widdle hand ….
Wow. GRR, you might wanna back down just a teeny bit. Again.
Go reread her comments - she sent her son to Fox because at the time it was his zoned school. Not very fair to give someone the snooty-white-people-school-choice stinkeye for that.
Given that the whole thrust of this discussion is in regards to the current, thoroughly unacceptable state of affairs at Armstrong, I don’t fault anyone for saying their kid isn’t going there in a year.
And, you are right, again, Jennifer. Deep breath. Count to 10 ….. It just galls me when the only time people seem to care about what happens in our schools is when all hell is breaking loose.
And then, the people who aren’t in the schools are so fast with the quip, the quick reaction and the “let’s show these kids who is boss” and call the cops and the military. I faulted her for LYING about it and playing a game with the principal.
I am also really angry with the School Board and those downtown administrators and their lack of presence in the situation. I do hope that people understand that the situation is bad and that they will consider voting for Art Burton. He at least seems to care what happens in the schools.
I have not seen Chandra Smith (6th District) or Keith West (7th District)anywhere near Armstrong.
The 6th District needs to elect someone (ART BURTON) who cares about our kids. And, I will say this, too: I miss Reggie Malone, he could frustrate people, but you always knew that he would be there for the kids.
GetReal, you are completely off the hook, which is your business. You are also misrepresenting me, which is mine.
I just got home from having dinner with my dying mother, and I really was not going to get into it here, but I find that it is necessary to set the record straight.
I never lied to the Principal, or to anyone here. I told the Principal that my son was in 8th grade, and that Armstrong was our zoned school - that I would like to take a tour.
Again, you do not know me. You don’t know what I have cared about, now or in the past. You are acting like we are siblings, and Daddy never loved you enough.
The axe you have to grind with me is karazy. I have never even met anyone named Get. You have been checked numerous times by other people here for going for my throat. This is not the first time, either. The last time you did this, I invited you to take responsibility for your unprocessed angst and send me an email. In case you lost that, please feel free to click on my goofy pic in the banner ad that pops up here once in a while. You will find my telephone number there, too. I am not anonymous.
So far you have twice accused me of lying - lying about stuff I wouldn’t even think to lie about - and I fail to see your motivation. Why are you using this place as a dumping ground for some kind of screaming vendetta you have against me? It’s kinda psycho.
Call me, baby. Get it off your chest in real life. I promise that I will try not to hang up in your face unless you start talking in all caps. I gotta draw the line at talking in caps.
Deeeeeep breath, y’all.
We are zoned to Armstrong and Shannon, I wish I’d seen your flyer info before it was too late. My teenager has a friend that goes there and if I thought his mother would go for it, I’d take him out tomorrow. He’s a good kid, and it’s not his fault. My son does University style homeschooling and before you think its Amish or something, he takes state tests and 90% of his transcript is immediately transferable to any public school. We go to a homeschool extension in Midlothian a few times a week. The teachers are certified and teach approved curriculum. They tend to be retired or mothers of young children. They love teaching small classes in such a good environment. He takes some classes (accredited) on line and I can’t tell you how much I like the on-line teachers! They tend to be teachers at home with their children. The rest he takes at our wonderful museums here in Richmond (they don’t transfer so easily). Homeschool extensions tend to pay the light bill by tutoring private school students. I was telling the director that I wish we had one here, but the teenagers are either sentenced to Armstrong, go to Open or Private school and I didn’t think we could get the 15 or so homeschoolers you need for classes. If we are going to attend a Private school-why not just move? We were thinking of enrolling him in a school because I’m worried he’s not having enough of a high school experience, even with his sports participation. I can just imagine how some of the Armstrong student mothers must feel. I’m so exasperated. Church Hill is such a great place. What I really want is a wonderful local High School Oh, well.
I understand that individual parents must make hard decisions with respect to their own children and I understand that they schools need to take immediate action but we, the community, need to address the big picture. Why do you think so many of Richmond’s children (wonderfully unique children) become violent and end up in jail in later adolescence? What is missing? These are the central issues we need to address. God help us all.
I emailed and/or called School Board members and the Superintendent on October 13th. I also sent them all a link to this thread. So far, Lisa Dawson and Carol Wolf have responded. I recommend that we all contact SB and Administration and let them know our concerns and demand that something is done so that those students Art Burton spoke about can attend school without fearing for their lives. Here are a couple of contacts: Superintendent, Dr. Yvonne Brandon ybrandon@richmond.k12.va.us and 7th district SB rep, Keith West ph. 644-1081.
And I’m still wondering, are there security cameras at Armstrong?
#90/Gray:
Along with security cameras, I STILL want to know if there are security roaming the halls and the cafeteria as well as metal detectors and security at the doors. Are the doors locked to outside “instigators” during class time?
The high school that I went to had all these precautions, and I went to HS in the early 70’s when there were lots of race riots. We didn’t have metal detectors, but we were searched. Believe me, it made a difference. The stabbings all but disappeared.
GetRealRichmond:
I’m really not trying to be a jerk here, but I think it would be useful to know the answer to the questions you raised in #80. Wouldn’t you want to know them? Do you know them? I asked you nicely, and you yelled back at me.
I really have to wonder if you are not part of the problem in the RPS system. You are such an angry, out of control, rude parent. I would not want to associate with that kind of behavior in the PTA (or any other setting), nor would I want my kid exposed to you.
You need to calm down and respect that this is a conversation with differing opinions about a really bad situation. Don’t take your frustration with the RPS and your kid’s shitty education experience out on the rest of us.
#88:
Hilarious!
From what I’ve heard Armstrong does have metal detectors.
And Hillkid, Jennifer announced a “deep breath” meant for all on this thread. We have all been at some point on this community blog “angry, out of control” especially when were passionate and at the same time knowledgable about the subject. I’ve been following GetReal’s comments for a while and she seems to know the history, current issues, and details of the inner workings of the RPS system. I do not see GetReal as part of the problem but instead a welcomed voice. But yes, at this point, everyone needs to lay off personal attacks and that includes you Mr. Hillkid.
I would also guess there are security folk roaming the school but kids know to hide from them that is why I keep asking about the cameras. Hidden cameras would even be better.
Hillkid,
Allow me to apologize first of all — I was in a really bad mood yesterday and frustrated by what seemed to be a lot of unfocused complaining and carrying on in the face a situation that needs to be taken seriously.
I fired off those questions in the hope of getting people to think strategically about how to analyze the problem.
Shannon (and others)drive me nuts sometimes with (what I perceive to be) a cliche’ driven response that is big on “general” — let’s call out the military — and lacking even a sense of appreciation for the details that are necessary to make some significant change happen.
I “yelled” back at you (especially) because I have appreciated your tough-mindedness in the past on various issues and I thought you were going all soft on me. Sorry. Really.
I am a grandparent and had far too little patience yesterday. I have reached the point in life of no longer having kids in RPS, but I still care about the kids who are there and want them treated with respect.
Soft-minded solutions don’t work. Suspending more kids than are enrolled in the system won’t work. Complaining online and wasting a principal’s time to schedule a tour at a time when the principal clearly has better things to do still seems wrong to me.
I am not as mad about it today as I was yesterday. Oh, and by the way, my kids had great experiences in RPS, no thanks to people who wanted to treat them like lessor human beings and subject them to dogs and police searches.
I don’t now, and never have, advocated for disrespect for the masses. I do advocate for strong, appropriate protection for the kids who are not part of the disciplinary problem. If it takes going to the strongest necessary lengths, I believe that would be a necessary, hopefully temporary, shame. I am hardly a war monger - quite the opposite. That being said, I’m not interested in taking a bunch of internet crap, nor having words put in my mouth that I clearly never stated. That is wrong.
If children, teachers, and staff, are being attacked, this is an extremely serious situation. Pussyfooting around the problems has obviously failed. Personal static here is as much a distraction to the matter at hand as fights are at school. I appreciate the commitment to stop doing that.
I certainly never implied, nor stated that it was simple. On the contrary. I clearly said that being in the solution would require an extraordinary amount of immediate focus and energy, and advocated for the worth of the urgency implied by that. I also committed myself and my family to involvement with that in any way that we can be of assistance, even if it is just being a present a foot soldier for the fact that the kids as a whole are worth more. This is despite the fact that my impressions dictate that Armstrong is not a good choice for my son right now.
Regardless, we are members of a community. I have a right to tour my son’s zoned school. Any parent, or grandparent, has that right. Asking for that is far from wasting time, particularly when I am stating that I stand ready to help in any positive way in which I am directed.
I repeat, I would love to see Armstrong be our, and/or others’ first choice one day. Having personal experience in a scholastic war zone, I believe that the measures required will need to be swift and strong. This is not synonymous with disrespect for anyone - child, teacher, staff, parent. On the contrary, it is out of respect for the human potential being wasted that I am passionate about a solution whose strength meets the gravity of the ailment.
What say the school leaders? Time is ticking.
#93/gray:
Getting all scoldy and PC on us. How ’bout you laying off also?
Since we’re on the subject of being PC, I find it interesting that you have a gender bias toward me. You often refer to me as “Mr.” How do you know that I am a guy. I could be and I could not be, the point is you are assuming something based on your prejudices. Pretty interesting, coming from a self-proclaimed post 60’s flower child that wasn’t really old enough to remember those days anyway.
The “deep breath” link is very humorous, whether it was meant to be or not. Kumbaya is such a cliche these days, although I remember when it wasn’t so much.
Your much more entertaining when you MYOB.
GetReal:
I really appreciate your comment #94. And I too, am sorry if things got snippy.
There is a meeting regarding this issue has been set for next Thursday 23rd at 6PM at Armstrong High School. It is open to the public.
Relavent information regarding the scale of the issue and what can be done are topics sure to be discussed. Community leaders as well as elected officals will be present.
Hillkid, you’re nothing but a jerk.
#99/gray:
Looks like you need to heed your own advice. I certainly hit a nerve there! Funny how the most “open-minded” people can be the most closed…
You are also a fool.
That’s it. NOBODY goes out for recess today. Everyone has to stay in and write 100 times:
“I will not patronize,”
“I will not instigate,”
or
“I will not overreact,”
depending on who’s writing. You guys figure out who gets which.
…a self-proclaimed post 60’s flower child..? WTF are you talking about hillkid, are you just making up stuff at random now? Forget the deep breath, time for a group slap for the people fighting about how to stop others from fighting. Get some security cameras, some guards, and some handcuffs over to Armstrong and lock up those who are committing crimes. It’s a high school, and I’m sure it’s not hard to figure out who the small number of thugs are. If they end up in jail or in a gang, it was inevitable. I agree with the forget about rehab line of reasoning. School should provide at least a sense of safety for these children even if they can’t provide a decent education for them. This isn’t a new problem at Armstrong either, and I think it would be interesting who has been part of the failed administration all these years and see what they have to say. Maybe it was a budget problem, but at any rate, they should be held accountable for a chronic problem. If the city can’t provide safety in schools, I say they are liable for any injury resulting from their negligence.
Go Ramzi! group slaps for all ….whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/whack/
Now, where is that new Police Chief and the Mayor? Wilder is an alum of Armstrong. How about some kick-ass leadership here?
I will not call names.
I will not call names.
I emailed a link to this thread with a note to Wilder’s press secretary.
gray and Ramzi:
So now the married couple is ganging up on the big bad hillkid. Ramzi, did gray come crying to her “daddy.”
Come on folks, grow up. I can’t believe you come on here all the time and talk about how to be good people/parents. You’re acting juvenile and petty.
Get a sense of humor.
Yes, post 60’s flower child - you heard me loud and clear. What’s so terrible about that? Nothing, except when you try to come off that way and then turn into the opposite. gray, you do it all the time.
I don’t have a problem being called names. Call me a jerk, a fool, whatever…if it makes you feel vindicated somehow. I’m those things and much much more, some good, some bad.
Let’s put it this way, I read you crap all the time on these threads. The self-righteous parent crap, the constant school complaints, the food critiques, art critiques, telling everyone how to behave all the time because you somehow claim the moral high ground. You’re so busy filling your day on these threads with you thoughts that you forget that folks actually think differently than you. Guess what? Being progressive and liberal doesn’t mean “my way or the highway.”
Most of the time I keep it zipped. Not this time. And, yes, you have to put up with my crap too, as I fill my days commenting on God knows what.
I’d appreciate you fighting your own battles. Don’t send your husband in when it gets too rough. Lame. Not very self-actualized.
Whack!
I speak up when I feel like it, not at anyone’s request, my wife is more than capable of fighting her own battles, certainly against you who has yet to enter into a debate without making it personal. The “self-proclaimed…” line you used is stated as if it is a quote from her, which it is not and is a misrepresentation, that’s why I mentioned it. This thread is supposed to be about violence in school, something which most people, especially parents, take very seriously, and I would hope there would be some productive dialogue going on instead of people sidetracking and purposely picking fights. My take on threads in general is that if you don’t have anything to add that is on topic, let others that are actually interested be heard. I don’t mind side notes or humor, and usually I like your sense of humor, but typically the threads are more interesting to me if they are focused. That’s just my take, I’m not saying that’s how it should be. I don’t hide behind a pseudonym and I don’t feel compelled to personally attack anyone in a blog, it’s just juvenile. Online anonymity such as is practiced here by some is similar to being in a large crowd, like at Armstrong with 1000 kids. For a slice of the population it results in a tendency to take more liberties than they normally would, and the larger the crowd, the more likely it is for the crowd to tolerate behavior that would otherwise be considered unacceptable in a more close-knit setting. In other words, people will try and get away with more if they think no one is paying attention to them as an individual or if no one knows who they are, and they can create their own false persona. It’s coward mentality and it is the driving force behind gang formation, where individuals who are weak join together, deriving strength in numbers. If you have a small population it is hard to hide who you are and most people, especially children, do not want to be outcasts, and most will conform to the do unto others line of reasoning. Maybe breaking up Armstrong’s student body into manageable blocs would make it easier to control.
Now, hillkid, why you gotta go act all ugly to Gray? Since I am not in a foul mood today, it is my turn to remind everyone that we promised john m last summer that we would try to remember to treat one another with a modicum of human kindness. C’mon people, please …..
RE: 106 - How could it be a budget problem? There is plenty of money floating around for stupid stuff, overpaid leaders and admins, ridiculous government allowances. Our city’s financial management is the butt of jokes all across the country.
It’s not a budget problem. It’s a priority problem. If these kids were from a different slice of life, you can bet your bottom dollar the money would be found to do what it takes to, at the minimum, ensure a sense of safety.
Richmond has a throw-away attitude about what it perceives to be a disposable sector of our town - that as long as less well-advantaged folks are kept sequestered and out of sight, we won’t have to face the issues at hand. Other cities do not have this problem, and this fact may be hard to recognize if you have never been anywhere else. I understand that.
As much as we pretend to try, this city cannot seem to get it together with truly embracing cultural diversity. Varying economic and racial backgrounds do not automatically equate with criminal behavior, and criminal behavior should not be accepted as a matter of course. That viewpoint is a tired old illness.
We shed more tears for folks in villages thousands of miles away, than for our own. We stroke that check to Greenpeace so that we can feel good about ourselves, while this mess is occurring right down the block. The only inconvenience we want to feel is reaching over to lock the doors if we absolutely have no other alternative than to drive through the neighborhood. And nobody wants to say that because it may not appear PC - because sometimes the low-down is not.
I find the lack of investment, monetary and otherwise, reprehensible. Cut the fat, Richmond. Start investing where the need is great. Do your job, or quit. Ease the hopelessness with attention to these issues, and do it now. God knows, you should have done it yesterday, last year, forever ago.
Yikes! I meant RE 107. (I’m a horrible typist.)
Hey hillkid/man-lady, I’ve never written an art critique on the community blogs. And yes critical of the schools but working in them at the same time for free.
Shannon,
Would you please cut the fat — between your ears? The entire nation (and world) is experiencing the worst financial markets since the Depression.
Try growing up and really reading the news, please, before you offer any more lame-ass budget analysis. “God knows, you should have done it yesterday, last year, forever ago.”
Speaking of school budgets, does the same amount of money follow an average student into Thomas Jefferson or Open High as Armstrong? I would like to know the breakdown. How about at the elementary level?
RE:Post 109 Shannon,
“We shed more tears for folks in villages thousands of miles away, than for our own. We stroke that check to Greenpeace so that we can feel good about ourselves, while this mess is occurring right down the block. The only inconvenience we want to feel is reaching over to lock the doors if we absolutely have no other alternative than to drive through the neighborhood. And nobody wants to say that because it may not appear PC - because sometimes the low-down is not.”
WTF?
Yeah, I shed more tears for folks in villages thousands of miles away because those folks don’t have the opportunity that most of the folks here do…they didn’t cause the problem…they aren’t asshole demon spawn kid-thugs that terrorize a high school making it impossible for those who are there to teach/learn to actually accomplish what they came to do.
Yeah, I stroke that check to Greenpeace so that I can feel good about myself AND DO SOME GOOD WITH MY MONEY among other things. I give to a number of other organizations that I believe in as well. Tell me Shannon, why should I stroke a check to Richmond or RPS for these problems? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do pay taxes and shouldn’t my tax money being going towards the city and school budget (by the way, I DO NOT have a child yet my tax dollars go towards paying for the mess at Armstrong and other RPS schools as well as an administration that does not take action…that’s for another post though).
Yeah, I do reach over to lock my door when I have no other alternative than to drive through the neighborhood because of what’s going on over there. Wake up! I suppose you take after dark strolls by yourself over in Mosby Court. Feel free dear…it’s your life. I’m not going to risk it.
So there you have it. I just said it, PC or not…I really don’t care. It’s the truth.
To comment on your “If these kids were from a different slice of life, you can bet your bottom dollar the money would be found to do what it takes to, at the minimum, ensure a sense of safety.”
IMHO this doesn’t happen to kids from another slice of life. When was the last time you heard of gang activity and mayhem at St. Christopher’s, St. Catherine’s, Godwin, Lee Davis, Atlee, Freeman, etc.?
Your “Richmond has a throw-away attitude about what it perceives to be a disposable sector of our town” I also have to comment on.
These menaces at Armstrong should be thrown away. Look what they are doing…threatening the safety and security of those who are there to teach and learn. They are assaulting teachers and students and causing injury. Last I heard, assault is a crime and these folks should be treated as criminals. Since you don’t think they should be “thrown away”, perhaps they can come live with you.
The economy? Hashahahahahaha! Lame.
If the problem here were virile worms from another planet infecting little girls, our attitude would be different.
SEW - they are not ALL menaces - far from it. I am not asking for lenience for criminal behavior, as your post implies that I am. I am calling for the opposite. Stop slapping wrists as if offenses were first offenses. Remove the problem so these kids can learn.
This blanket attitude, and gene