I had heard a rumor that Ellwood Thompson had “bought” this property, shortly before seeing Sunny’s closed sign. Obviously, this does not appear to be true.
Could this location support a co-op or ET type grocery?
A quick co-op search yeilded “Fare Share” on W. Main but there was no answer.
Are they a food co-op?
Do they exist?
Dare I ask about Church Hill Grocery?
Does Fare Share still exist? I remember them from the late 1970s, early 1980s, at maybe Rowland and Main? With the feminist bookstore in the basement that was on the honor system (take a book, leave the money in the box). Man, I feel old.
I think the Circle School folks in Oregon Hill do, or did, also run a food coop.
Wow! A co-op or an Ellwood Thompsons?! Either way I’d be in heaven. I was just complaining about how sick I am of Kroger, and I just can’t go to Ukrops. Fresh Market is terribly overpriced… and what else is there in the city? A decent grocer or co-op would be a fantastic addition to the neighborhood.
I just emailed a representative of Ellwood Thompson to take a look at the building and the area. Although it would be nice to do a co-op grocery store, I don’t know if we have the time to get the property and build a plan before another deadbeat business takes the place.
Any other thoughts on this?
if that is the definition of a “deadbeat” business, then exclude sunny markey cuz I went there a few times for beer and other items, and I’m a white boy.
Sorry for the wrong term, didn’t mean to ruffle feathers. There were no racial connotations in that message. I went into Sunny Market for various items myself, and enjoyed their business. I meant to say that I would rather a more established grocer take the building.
There were rumors a few years ago that Ellwood Thompson had purchased the Chimbo (500 block of Chimborazo Blvd) and were planning to open an east side grocery. I contacted the GM of Ellwoods and was told that they continue to look for new opportunities but have no plans to open an east side store. I think the rumors grew out of confusion over the Church Hill Market which was in the works.
In addition I spoke to a realtor last summer who said that developers had attempted to purchase the Chimbo with the desire to turn it into an upscale grocery, but the owners of the Chimbo wouldn’t accept the offer.
John M- I’m also a white person who shopped at Sunny. I was guessing (provocatively, I admit) at the definition. I didn’t see JES’ post, or I wouldn’t have submitted mine.
If you’re interested in learning more about the ins and outs of attracting grocery stores to neighborhoods in cities, especially lower-income neighborhoods in cities, check out The Food Trust (http://www.thefoodtrust.org/), which has done awesome work in Philadelphia.
Sadly, Fair Share is gone, but there are a number of co-ops in town that order directly from natural foods suppliers.
What about a Trader Joe’s. Cheaper than Ellwood Thompson and offers a lot of the same kinds of health foods and related items. Not prepared foods but that way they keep the costs down. People who move here and know them would find the store no matter where it is located. Could it be that Ukrops is keeping them out of town? Closest one is Newport News and the drive down there is worth it.
Trader Joe’s would not be in keeping w the local mom-n-pop kind of businesses that typically open in neighborhoods like Church Hill. I would prefer to see an Ellwood’s or co-op myself as that will keep it local, VA farmers and distributors will be used and so forth.
Whatever locates there, I hope they offer services the whole community can use, such as fair-priced baby formula and acceptance of foodstamps and WIC. A lot of folks don’t have transportation. I think a smart marketer could appeal to the diverse needs of our neighborhood.
Wow folks….those are some pretty lofty wishes for the area. Don’t expect retailers the likes of Trader’s or Whole Foods to look at an area like North 25th Street or anywhere in the Hill anytime soon. If Ukrops has no interest in the area, it is doubtful that even higher end brands mentioned would even put a City location on the radar screen. ET’s will have a formidable competitor in Whole Foods. It would be very unlikely for them to expend any capital looking beyond their current turf. ET’s will never be able to compete with Whole Foods on price and depth of selection. Whole Foods caters to a niche market that people will travel to. ET’s has historically owned that market That’s not welcome news for ET’s. Whole Foods will certainly take a bite out of the Ukrops locations operating in that area. Tiny’s comment makes alot of sense for the 25th St. location. The trick will be to add higher margin items into the mix to generate profits…possibly prepared foods. There is no money to be made by a Mom and Pop for selling groceries alone.
I would love to gather people interested in a coop up on the hill and see what comes of it. If you are interested drop me a line at danielfarrell76@gmail.com and I’ll take the lead on it.
What about trying to lure Kroger? Yes it’s a chain and all, but it would serve the multiple markets on the Hill. Having some nice prepared foods, decent beverage selection, fresh fruits and veggies, baby formula could serve a lot of niches.
I also agree that racism (veiled and unveiled) too often rears its ugly head on the CHPN. I know this belongs on a different thread, but I’ve been going out of my way to buy my beer at the Blue Wheeler as a way to support their increased selection of 6 packs/imports. I’ve noticed that the BW is looking really good. If we want to transform the types of goods and services available in our neighborhood, we should support local businesses and make changes from within.
Traditional pantry items are what you are looking for to fill a need in the marketplace…Right? If you see very, very few independent grocers around, there is a very good reason for it. There is no money to be made by selling groceries alone. Retail grocery is a brutal business that requires a great deal of overhead, tremendous waste, a lot of labor, and razor thin margins. There is a formula that all national grocers use in order to work their business plan.
The first thing that jumps out with the 25th Street space is …the lack of space. The store is only large enough to stock the basics of what is offered in a grocery store. None of these items are profit drivers. If you look at a Kroger, for example, the profit drivers are the following; beer and wine, general merchandise (dishes, small appliances, cookware, etc), PHARMACY, bakery,private label product, prepared foods, gasoline, floral, Starbucks, etc.
There simply is not enough space at any existing location in Church Hill to support a national/regional chain. Demographics and density would be two other huge concerns…a whole other topic. A small space like the former Sunny location requires a non-traditional , specialty grocer (think Joe’s Market on Libbey). The concept would work but the demographics are all wrong. I’d bet on convenience grocery, w/ beer and wine and a heavy emphasis on prepared foods.
Keep in mind also that the plans for the big blank lot at 9 Mile and 25th are for a grocery store, though I haven’t heard anything about this in a little while. THAT space would be bof enough for a *real* grocery store.
Amy_NB – I agree with you. One poster claimed that they would not give the owner their money. But I say, let’s all us give them our business! They are going to market to whomever is going give them money.
As long as there is no lawlessness going on, we should support our local businesses.
good grief. who wants to go to short pump to go to whole foods OR trader joes? with the money you spend on gas it totally kills the point. i personally shop the triad of ellwood’s, ukrops, and kroger however, some sort of specialty market in church hill would rule. even if it is just prepared foods with beer and wine, that could work really well! i would love to see a miniature verson of the church hill market. like the beer and wine with the hot and salad bar, PLUS the starbucks (yeah i know, throw the stones, starbucks is evil, whatever.) how cool would it be to have a place like that to stop on your morning or evening comute without having to drive to the bottom??
If it were to be too difficult for a grocer to take the place of the Sunny Market, is there anything else that could fit that space and be of good use for the community?
I think something like a Caravatti’s/recycled building material/supply center would be cool–Portland has a great one, and the site on 25th would be ideal. Plus, it would be fantastic to have a place where people could donate and exchange material, which could also be sold for profit. http://www.rebuildingcenter.org
“The ReBuilding Center is a popular destination for homeowners, do-it-yourselfers, contractors, artists, and enthusiasts interested in building with affordable, environmentally low impact materials. With an inventory that changes by the hour, The ReBuilding Center is the largest non-profit used building materials resource in North America.”
WHOA..weird.. is there another eco exPortlander living on Clay street?!?
We lived there before moving to Richmond a few years ago. The Rebuilding Center was amazing– great finds and WAY cheaper than Caravatti’s. It even included another recycling organization called SCRAP where you could get funky arty supplies like sheets of vinyl, teddy bear eyes, balls of wire and string.. a cup of coffee and that place made for the best Saturday afternoons.
OMG! What a GREAT IDEA for the old Sunny Mkg (the Rebuilding Center). Clay St and V…since you have perspective, do you think this could really happen here in Richmond?
JES, we already have an neighborhood outreach center for this area: The Family Resource Center. It’s around the corner from Sunny’s on Jefferson Avenue at Leigh/24th. You can’t miss it with the fabulous Art180 murals.
Come by and check it out…great things happening everyday; a dedicated staff and a wonderful asset to our community.
Dunno–but it could put people to work on many levels, starting with sorting and intake of materials, as well as the design, fabrication and retail of specialty products such as furniture and home goods, etc.
Unfortunately, the problem with something like that happening in Richmond is that it would take imagination, organization, money, and consensus, all of which Richmond sometimes lacks. (I’m going to get creamed for that one).
Unfortunately, the problem with something like that happening in Richmond is that it would take imagination, organization, money, and consensus, all of which Richmond sometimes lacks. (I’m going to get creamed for that one).
Ukrop helped Johnny Johnson along in exchange for him leaving one of the Urkop family females alone. That whole thing was a payoff and a closely guarded secret.
“That whole thing was a payoff and a closely guarded secret.”
Until now… Thanks for enlightening us. Care to share your sources? I know a few news outlets that would probably pay your for that juicy secret.
My understanding of how the Rebuilding Center ran was as an income generating arm of another human services based nonprofit. The Rebuilding center bid out on decon jobs and just took the time to reclaim materials– from bricks,lumber cabinets, fixtures etc. Similar to Cox down the hill but more stuff :) An outfit like Cox could expand their reclaim percentages and open up a more formal shop…. I have heard the Habitat Restore is similar but I haven’t been there…
I’ve been the the Habitat Restore, and it’s great! But it’s kind of hidden and a little out of the way. It’s always nice to have a more local and visible option.
Also, perhaps one of the things some of the employees of a restore could do would be to go dumpster diving around neighborhood. That would make me feel so much better about a lot of the waste I see going on outside some renovations.
The Habitat Restore is great- but the one off Chamberlayne is actually not as good as others around the state. I recently went to the one in Charlottesville, and it was amazing. Clean, well-lit, and extremely well stocked with all sorts of building products, from cast-iron tubs, to tile, to molding. The one here’s worth a visit, but since seeing others I’m hoping ours will give itself a facelift.
I love the idea of a store for building parts and as a place to buy, sell and exchange. It would do well in Richmond. Here is the reality check: the sale price for the property is $850,000 and the monthly rent amount is $7864/month. The agent said that a grocery chain is looking at the building, but nothing is serious at this point. Anybody have a trust fund we could tap? Or do we start buying lottery tickets?
There is no way a source could ever be named in the Ukrop/Johnson payoff but it seems likely the way he “just exploded” onto the scene. He then managed to show his colors and get arrested a couple of times and things went downhill from there.
Let’s hope there is better use with the property.
Cooperative Grocery, anyone?
I had heard a rumor that Ellwood Thompson had “bought” this property, shortly before seeing Sunny’s closed sign. Obviously, this does not appear to be true.
Could this location support a co-op or ET type grocery?
A quick co-op search yeilded “Fare Share” on W. Main but there was no answer.
Are they a food co-op?
Do they exist?
Dare I ask about Church Hill Grocery?
I have thought about what would be involved in a cooperative grocery for a while. I’d definitely be interested. Anyone else?
I’d be very interested, though I know very little about this type of thing.
Does Fare Share still exist? I remember them from the late 1970s, early 1980s, at maybe Rowland and Main? With the feminist bookstore in the basement that was on the honor system (take a book, leave the money in the box). Man, I feel old.
I think the Circle School folks in Oregon Hill do, or did, also run a food coop.
Would love a co-op grocery, but feel like an Ellwood Thompson’s would fit our market better.
Wow! A co-op or an Ellwood Thompsons?! Either way I’d be in heaven. I was just complaining about how sick I am of Kroger, and I just can’t go to Ukrops. Fresh Market is terribly overpriced… and what else is there in the city? A decent grocer or co-op would be a fantastic addition to the neighborhood.
Sorry, I meant “Farm Fresh” (i.e. The Market), not “Fresh Market”.
I just emailed a representative of Ellwood Thompson to take a look at the building and the area. Although it would be nice to do a co-op grocery store, I don’t know if we have the time to get the property and build a plan before another deadbeat business takes the place.
Any other thoughts on this?
Was the Sunny Supermarket considered a “deadbeat business”?
What is a “deadbeat buisness?”
It appears that any business that caters to black people is considered to be a “deadbeat business” by the fine folks on CHPN.
A deadbeat business is one where white people don’t shop.
if that is the definition of a “deadbeat” business, then exclude sunny markey cuz I went there a few times for beer and other items, and I’m a white boy.
cagitate – I shopped there some. Be careful with your flip answers.
JES – Try not to lump everyone together.
Sorry for the wrong term, didn’t mean to ruffle feathers. There were no racial connotations in that message. I went into Sunny Market for various items myself, and enjoyed their business. I meant to say that I would rather a more established grocer take the building.
ellwood’s would be so sweet. i have talked to several people in the area what feel the same way.
I apologize John – you are correct.
It just seems that there are many CHPN posters who hate black-oriented businesses on the hill and it frustrates me to no end.
There were rumors a few years ago that Ellwood Thompson had purchased the Chimbo (500 block of Chimborazo Blvd) and were planning to open an east side grocery. I contacted the GM of Ellwoods and was told that they continue to look for new opportunities but have no plans to open an east side store. I think the rumors grew out of confusion over the Church Hill Market which was in the works.
In addition I spoke to a realtor last summer who said that developers had attempted to purchase the Chimbo with the desire to turn it into an upscale grocery, but the owners of the Chimbo wouldn’t accept the offer.
John M- I’m also a white person who shopped at Sunny. I was guessing (provocatively, I admit) at the definition. I didn’t see JES’ post, or I wouldn’t have submitted mine.
If you’re interested in learning more about the ins and outs of attracting grocery stores to neighborhoods in cities, especially lower-income neighborhoods in cities, check out The Food Trust (http://www.thefoodtrust.org/), which has done awesome work in Philadelphia.
Sadly, Fair Share is gone, but there are a number of co-ops in town that order directly from natural foods suppliers.
What about a Trader Joe’s. Cheaper than Ellwood Thompson and offers a lot of the same kinds of health foods and related items. Not prepared foods but that way they keep the costs down. People who move here and know them would find the store no matter where it is located. Could it be that Ukrops is keeping them out of town? Closest one is Newport News and the drive down there is worth it.
Trader Joe’s would be great! Didn’t The Market (before Johnny Johnson) have some problems getting started due to Ukrops?
Trader Joe’s would not be in keeping w the local mom-n-pop kind of businesses that typically open in neighborhoods like Church Hill. I would prefer to see an Ellwood’s or co-op myself as that will keep it local, VA farmers and distributors will be used and so forth.
Trader Joe’s is entering the Richmond market. Its first store to be located in Short Pump across from Best Buy.
Kelly:
Exactly the opposite. The Ukrops helped him out considerably…
Whatever locates there, I hope they offer services the whole community can use, such as fair-priced baby formula and acceptance of foodstamps and WIC. A lot of folks don’t have transportation. I think a smart marketer could appeal to the diverse needs of our neighborhood.
I think the new store coming to Short Pump is a Whole Foods, not a Trader Joe’s.
Tiny – BRILLIANT!! I totally agree.
Wow folks….those are some pretty lofty wishes for the area. Don’t expect retailers the likes of Trader’s or Whole Foods to look at an area like North 25th Street or anywhere in the Hill anytime soon. If Ukrops has no interest in the area, it is doubtful that even higher end brands mentioned would even put a City location on the radar screen. ET’s will have a formidable competitor in Whole Foods. It would be very unlikely for them to expend any capital looking beyond their current turf. ET’s will never be able to compete with Whole Foods on price and depth of selection. Whole Foods caters to a niche market that people will travel to. ET’s has historically owned that market That’s not welcome news for ET’s. Whole Foods will certainly take a bite out of the Ukrops locations operating in that area. Tiny’s comment makes alot of sense for the 25th St. location. The trick will be to add higher margin items into the mix to generate profits…possibly prepared foods. There is no money to be made by a Mom and Pop for selling groceries alone.
I would love to gather people interested in a coop up on the hill and see what comes of it. If you are interested drop me a line at danielfarrell76@gmail.com and I’ll take the lead on it.
What about trying to lure Kroger? Yes it’s a chain and all, but it would serve the multiple markets on the Hill. Having some nice prepared foods, decent beverage selection, fresh fruits and veggies, baby formula could serve a lot of niches.
I also agree that racism (veiled and unveiled) too often rears its ugly head on the CHPN. I know this belongs on a different thread, but I’ve been going out of my way to buy my beer at the Blue Wheeler as a way to support their increased selection of 6 packs/imports. I’ve noticed that the BW is looking really good. If we want to transform the types of goods and services available in our neighborhood, we should support local businesses and make changes from within.
Traditional pantry items are what you are looking for to fill a need in the marketplace…Right? If you see very, very few independent grocers around, there is a very good reason for it. There is no money to be made by selling groceries alone. Retail grocery is a brutal business that requires a great deal of overhead, tremendous waste, a lot of labor, and razor thin margins. There is a formula that all national grocers use in order to work their business plan.
The first thing that jumps out with the 25th Street space is …the lack of space. The store is only large enough to stock the basics of what is offered in a grocery store. None of these items are profit drivers. If you look at a Kroger, for example, the profit drivers are the following; beer and wine, general merchandise (dishes, small appliances, cookware, etc), PHARMACY, bakery,private label product, prepared foods, gasoline, floral, Starbucks, etc.
There simply is not enough space at any existing location in Church Hill to support a national/regional chain. Demographics and density would be two other huge concerns…a whole other topic. A small space like the former Sunny location requires a non-traditional , specialty grocer (think Joe’s Market on Libbey). The concept would work but the demographics are all wrong. I’d bet on convenience grocery, w/ beer and wine and a heavy emphasis on prepared foods.
Keep in mind also that the plans for the big blank lot at 9 Mile and 25th are for a grocery store, though I haven’t heard anything about this in a little while. THAT space would be bof enough for a *real* grocery store.
Amy_NB – I agree with you. One poster claimed that they would not give the owner their money. But I say, let’s all us give them our business! They are going to market to whomever is going give them money.
As long as there is no lawlessness going on, we should support our local businesses.
Both Whole Foods AND Trader Joe’s are coming to Short Pump…
good grief. who wants to go to short pump to go to whole foods OR trader joes? with the money you spend on gas it totally kills the point. i personally shop the triad of ellwood’s, ukrops, and kroger however, some sort of specialty market in church hill would rule. even if it is just prepared foods with beer and wine, that could work really well! i would love to see a miniature verson of the church hill market. like the beer and wine with the hot and salad bar, PLUS the starbucks (yeah i know, throw the stones, starbucks is evil, whatever.) how cool would it be to have a place like that to stop on your morning or evening comute without having to drive to the bottom??
other mike-I know Ukrops helped Johnny Johnson w/ the Market…I was referring to before he/they got involved.
It would be nice to have a sort of indoor farmer’s market with local goods…is that how a coop would work?
If it were to be too difficult for a grocer to take the place of the Sunny Market, is there anything else that could fit that space and be of good use for the community?
Who wants to bet it turns into another church…?
A community outreach center would be nice – to provide GED classes, counseling, and what-not.
Fulton has a community outreach center and I hear it’s fairly successful. Check it out:
http://greaterfultonnews.org/2007/11/28/neig…
Don’t we have enough community outreach? How about a for profit business that employs people and pays property taxes?
I think something like a Caravatti’s/recycled building material/supply center would be cool–Portland has a great one, and the site on 25th would be ideal. Plus, it would be fantastic to have a place where people could donate and exchange material, which could also be sold for profit.
http://www.rebuildingcenter.org
“The ReBuilding Center is a popular destination for homeowners, do-it-yourselfers, contractors, artists, and enthusiasts interested in building with affordable, environmentally low impact materials. With an inventory that changes by the hour, The ReBuilding Center is the largest non-profit used building materials resource in North America.”
WHOA..weird.. is there another eco exPortlander living on Clay street?!?
We lived there before moving to Richmond a few years ago. The Rebuilding Center was amazing– great finds and WAY cheaper than Caravatti’s. It even included another recycling organization called SCRAP where you could get funky arty supplies like sheets of vinyl, teddy bear eyes, balls of wire and string.. a cup of coffee and that place made for the best Saturday afternoons.
OMG! What a GREAT IDEA for the old Sunny Mkg (the Rebuilding Center). Clay St and V…since you have perspective, do you think this could really happen here in Richmond?
JES, we already have an neighborhood outreach center for this area: The Family Resource Center. It’s around the corner from Sunny’s on Jefferson Avenue at Leigh/24th. You can’t miss it with the fabulous Art180 murals.
Come by and check it out…great things happening everyday; a dedicated staff and a wonderful asset to our community.
Dunno–but it could put people to work on many levels, starting with sorting and intake of materials, as well as the design, fabrication and retail of specialty products such as furniture and home goods, etc.
Unfortunately, the problem with something like that happening in Richmond is that it would take imagination, organization, money, and consensus, all of which Richmond sometimes lacks. (I’m going to get creamed for that one).
I’d expect more a chorus of agreement, actually.
Ukrop helped Johnny Johnson along in exchange for him leaving one of the Urkop family females alone. That whole thing was a payoff and a closely guarded secret.
“That whole thing was a payoff and a closely guarded secret.”
Until now… Thanks for enlightening us. Care to share your sources? I know a few news outlets that would probably pay your for that juicy secret.
My understanding of how the Rebuilding Center ran was as an income generating arm of another human services based nonprofit. The Rebuilding center bid out on decon jobs and just took the time to reclaim materials– from bricks,lumber cabinets, fixtures etc. Similar to Cox down the hill but more stuff :) An outfit like Cox could expand their reclaim percentages and open up a more formal shop…. I have heard the Habitat Restore is similar but I haven’t been there…
I’ve been the the Habitat Restore, and it’s great! But it’s kind of hidden and a little out of the way. It’s always nice to have a more local and visible option.
Also, perhaps one of the things some of the employees of a restore could do would be to go dumpster diving around neighborhood. That would make me feel so much better about a lot of the waste I see going on outside some renovations.
The Habitat Restore is great- but the one off Chamberlayne is actually not as good as others around the state. I recently went to the one in Charlottesville, and it was amazing. Clean, well-lit, and extremely well stocked with all sorts of building products, from cast-iron tubs, to tile, to molding. The one here’s worth a visit, but since seeing others I’m hoping ours will give itself a facelift.
Where is the Habitat Restore in Richmond?
http://www.richmondhabitat.org/restore.html
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1901+Roane+St,+Richmond,+VA+23222,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&ct=title
http://www.richmondhabitat.org/restore.html
Ha Ha! Jinx
“That whole thing was a payoff and a closely guarded secret.â€
I heard about it – Johnny Johnson was dating one of the Ukrop daughters.
I love the idea of a store for building parts and as a place to buy, sell and exchange. It would do well in Richmond. Here is the reality check: the sale price for the property is $850,000 and the monthly rent amount is $7864/month. The agent said that a grocery chain is looking at the building, but nothing is serious at this point. Anybody have a trust fund we could tap? Or do we start buying lottery tickets?
There is no way a source could ever be named in the Ukrop/Johnson payoff but it seems likely the way he “just exploded” onto the scene. He then managed to show his colors and get arrested a couple of times and things went downhill from there.
Sorry, but I really can’t imagine anyone being interested in Johnny Johnson’s sex life. Or a Ukrop daughter’s sex life for that matter.
I heard about it – Johnny Johnson was dating one of the Ukrop daughters.
That urban myth has been around as long as Mikey and the Pop Rocks. It’s not true, but everyone loves to believe that it is.
Perhaps this is the truth: http://www.ccc.unc.edu/documents/CC_innerCity_Supermarkets.pdf
The building should be demolished… and replaced with something much better.
How about more BHC houses?
John M, I would be okay with that. I think the houses look beautiful and go nicely with the area.
[...] old Sunny Market is a bad neighbor for the new homes on the 800 block of 26th Street. Standing water several feet [...]