what’s missing?
A reader asks: What types of businesses would residents of Church Hill like to see come into the area? (like a butcher, wine & beer store, Thai restaurant, more restaurants, etc)
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I always thought a Trader Joe’s would do awesome in this area. Is there anywhere around to buy beer?
A wine & beer store was always my #1 wish. Having to run to Carytown or Bellevue to buy anything decent was always a pain in the ass.
A straight-up deli would have been great as well. I love J’s sandwiches, but sometimes you just gotta have a pastrami & swiss…
I think the Ukrop cartel has effectively blocked a Trader Joe’s from ever happening in Richmond–heard it way back from someone in the know. Supposedly that is why Whole Foods has taken so long to get here–and even now, it will only be going way the hell out in Short Pump next year-ish. A downtown Ellwood Thompson would be great, and also an East End branch of Fan Video (I always thought the space above Cam Cam/Fasmart would be ideal for a video store). By the way, what the hell is up with the so-called Church Hill Market? I think there are still Easter decorations up in the window…not a good sign.
A store that sells sharpened sticks for those vigilante get-togethers?
I tried to get a zoning variance for “Sharp Sticks and Pointy Things” but it was blocked by our Council Woman.
I would love for the Chimborazo Mini Mall to be transformed into some sort of retail space. Perhaps a restaurant or two and a video store.
The Market has beer and wine and the selection is pretty decent. There’s a video store next door to the Market though more mainstream than Fan Video. There’s sandwiches available about everywhere in our area. Church Hill has quite a few amenities that it didn’t have even five years ago.
Growth takes time and there has to be a critical mass in order to support specialty stores and restaurants that are on the “wish list.”
People aren’t supporting the stuff that we have here already. Go to J’s on a Saturday night and you’ll know what I mean.
Since all the grandfathering has been taken away from the corner stores and changed to residential, it’s that much harder to start something inside the neighborhood.
Look at how long it took Je to get her ABC, and the trouble that John Sanchez is having with his place.
Butcher, Thai Restaurant? Nice to fantasize about but not very realistic, at least in the heart of Church Hill. Maybe more stuff on Main St. is possible.
I keep hearing rumors that the Church Hill Market is dead. RIP. Defunct.
The would be developers blew their entire budget on demolition and now have to come up with over half a million dollars to complete the market.
A decent gym.
Nacho – have you looked at the new gym on Main Street?
I would like to see a nice wine, cheese shop with specialty beers. I wish for a butcher and fresh fish market. I would absolutely love to see a group like the Tricycle Gardens or something similar sell fresh fruits and veggies if they were organically grown that would be even better.
a bootlegger. when i first moved to church hill there was a bootlegger on my block and it was very convenient and the operation seemed to help keep the peace in the neighborhood.
“I would absolutely love to see a group like the Tricycle Gardens or something similar sell fresh fruits and veggies if they were organically grown that would be even better.”
Check out the Farmer’s Market in Shockoe Bottom.
I would like a new corner store – not a gourmet store with an online business – but a walk up store that sells convenience items. Just like the one the Church Hill Market replaced.
Also on my wish list: a decent child care center at an affordable price. I take my kids to the Boys and Girls club in the Fan because there really isn’t anything that offers full-day, affordable day care for kids up to age 12.
A place to get good ice cream and a cheap, non-waiter pizza/sub shop would be nice. Places in the Bottom offer pizza, but it’s either only-tastes-good-if-you-are-really-drunk pizza or pay-$30-and-wait-an-hour pizza from Bottom’s Up.
Any retail, especially a music shop, would be nice.
j –
Da Vinci’s on 25th has awesome pizza.
A Target. A Barnes & Noble or Borders. Restaurants of various ethnic persuasions: Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian.
An art house movie theatre.
A good breakfast place… with REAL Belgian waffles.
hmmm’s comment about Checking out the Farmer’s Market – I have it’s not that great.
A market, bookstore, small movie theatre / play theatre or thrift store would be fabulous.
There will be a Target opening in the mall being built on Laburnum across the street from Ukrops. A new bookstore as well…not sure if it is a Barnes and Noble or Borders. And… the Church Hill Market is and has been dead for quite some time. Owners are just blowing smoke to prevent being placed on the city’s distressed property list.
I would like the Market on Main Street to be modernized. If you drive around the neighborhood on recycling day, you’ll see countless Ellwood Thompson and Ukrops paper bags. The neighbors I talk to and I still have to drive miles just to buy decent food—with the exception of Thursday’s Farmers Market, which, despite what the previous comment says, is pretty good for its size—and I’ve visited major markets both nationally and internationally! That commenter simply doesn’t know what they are talking about.
On a visit to The Market a few weeks ago, I saw no organics in the veggie section (only organic mixed nuts?), however I did see about a dozen different types of smoked meat parts. There is a large demographic in CH and the Bottom that the management of The Market has decided to ignore.
I agree with what another said about ethnic restaurants, but based on what I’ve seen in thriving multicultural cities, the required ethnic base needed to create that kind of environment doesn’t want to live in CH.
There aren’t any tables/seats at Da Vinci’s, unless you want to hang on 25th w. errybody else…
A restaurant/bar with a decent size. One that could accommodate pool tables and the like. But realistically all of these wishes are available in the Bottom. Let’s get these ratty houses situated!
I wish The Market had some competition so I don’t have to pay $5 for a box of cereal or $7 for a frozen pizza. And no, the Chimbo Supermarket doesn’t count. I try to avoid places with bars on the front windows.
I second Bill’s idea of bootlegger. When I first moved up here, I lived next door to a wonderful older woman who took a taxi down to the ABC store off Williamsburg Ave., (is it still there?)and sold dollar shots from her front porch. She was a one woman crime watch, even gave me lectures on the guy I was dating if he’d come by when I was still at work. (His name was Bill, too, but I’m pretty sure not the same Bill!) I didn’t buy dollar shots from her, but given the price of shots these days I’m sure some would like that price….unfortunately she’s long gone….
Farmer’s Market? Sorry, I work during the limited hours it is open on Thursdays. It’s a sad state of affairs when I’d rather drive all the way to D.C. to Eastern Market than shop down on 17th St.
Video? Right, we’ve got a store down in front of the market.
Whoever said we aren’t patronizing what we’ve got – I second that. I shop at The Market a lot. And when they are out of something, I tell them. It’s only ten minutes or so to Carytown, Ellwood Thompson isn’t going to move here anytime soon, so just go there for other stuff. I’m more interested in getting The Market to stock the stuff they claim to normally stock. No harm in traveling ten minutes to Carytown – although I won’t drive all the way to Parham Road or further west for organics, etc. There’s also a produce market in Oregon Hill, folks. Shop local if possible.
I’ve tried emailing Ukrop’s to encourage some competition for The Market. I suggested putting a full-sized market on that mostly empty block on Fairmount and 25th or bringing in something smaller like a Joe’s Market or Ukrop’s “Back Door Market” – both of which could fit more easily in other locations around the Church Hill. I haven’t received a reply. Maybe if a few more people made some noise.
that mostly empty block on Fairmount and 25th
Development at that corner could be amazing.
Back when Community Pride (what an ironically named store) was still afloat, the city council granted them a limited monopoly on grocery stores in urban areas. This came to light when the THE MARKET was first being developed to be a UKROPS off shoot and Johnny Johnson threw a hissy fit and blocked it for almost a year and then somehow managed to get control of the project.
Does anyone know if THE MARKET inherited this promised monopoly on groceries for our neighborhood? That could be one reason we are so underserved.
I don’t think Ukrop’s will ever move into the area while The Market is still around. The Market, I believe, is now owned by Supervalu, who is a major supplier to the Ukrop’s chain. So there is the conflict. Johnny Johnson did own the Market at one time, but Supervalu ran him out of business and took over his store. You can read a little more about it here.
I, for one DO NOT want a Target, or anything like that. I moved here to get away from strip-mall suburbia. If I really need to go to Target or Walmart or anything like that, I can go to Mechanicsville. I much rather have small, unique, and practical shopping here.
A movie theater would be really cool, though.
Demographics of the area are the only reason why this area is underserved. Ukrop’s has never had a desire to have a Ukrops branded store in the Church Hill area. A relative of the Ukrop family was considering running the store on Main Street. This store was planned and developed bt Forest City Developers as a support service to Tobacco Row. Although parts of Church Hill and Shockoe Bottom have come a long way in a few years, there are only a few high-end areas with well-heeled folks. Businesses like Ukrops, Joe’s Market, Trader Joe’s, etc. rely heavily on footsteps (and lots of them) buying high margin items. Stores of these types cannot survive on selling commodities and opening price point items.
As one poster accurately mentioned, this area does not have “critical mass” of the demographic necessary to support these businesses. That, and that alone, is the reason why The Market’s assortment of food offerings is disappointing to a high-end consumer. The Market has to stock what they will sell in quantity in order to survive. So, for those of you looking for organics and gourmet style prepared foods…. you have to keep driving to the West End for a while.
Another astute poster referenced the lack of traffic at J’s on a Saturday night… the menu price is too high for this area at this time. If they want to continue a successful business, the menu has to change to a more moderately priced offering in order to draw footsteps. Church Hill cannot command Fan prices because it does not have that many affluent households.
Would love to see a breakfast place – we want it on 25 @ Fairmount area since we are on 19th and Fairmount rehabbing. Really it is disgraceful there are no decent places out here. Does the city not want people to bring up the area? It almost seems they prefer residents loafing instead of actually working. (ooh that was ugly, sorry its hot)
William, I believe you are mildly mistaken. THE MARKET was initailly slated to be a Joes Market until Johnny Johnson cited his “no competition” clause. The project stalled for a year and then, when it resumed, he had muscled his way in. His business model of mooching off the Ukrops inlaws and then not having to compete to keep his stores going, artifically propped him up, setting him up and the neighborhood up for a failure. It is a classic example of how our near sighted city council has failed us.
ahhhh…Nordy, it was the Ukrop family that gave Johnson several hundred thousand dollars to get Community Pride stores up and running in order to serve the inner city. Ukrops had absolutely no desire to open a store in the inner city. This was largely to supress criticism of the company for not supporting the inner city demographic. In reality, this was a way of Ukrops not having to deal with that customer base. Joe’s Market is wholly owned and operated by the Ukrops chain–not a cousin or inlaw. Robert Ukrop has stated many times that they have never had sights on Church Hill nor do they have any. Johnny Johnson only leased that space from Forest City–Forest City owns the building. That market is an extension of Tobacco Row and is still owned by the same company. SuperValu is predominantly a wholesale food supplier that happens to own Farm Fresh Food Stores. Farm Fresh manages The Market with Supervalu being the supplier. Forest City was looking for a grocery chain to manage the store. Ukrops were not interested in that arrangement–they own most of their locations. A cousin of the Ukrop family was in initial talks to possibly manage that store–however, not as a Ukrops or Joe’s.
Ukrops bought the Community Pride store downtown from Johnson–only because of the new Kroger, the changes brought on by VCU and the proximity to the Fan. No retailer wants to give up all of their market share. If you have ever shopped at that Ukrops store, you will notice–it’s a dump and the food selection is not great either. Ukrop has stated that their are no plans to renovate that location. That should tell you where the Ukrop commitment is to the inner city. That store has just about the same customer-base shopping there as does the Market. No mistakes here.
Honestly, what’s so great about Ukrops? They are way over-priced. Most of the families here (with children) really cannot afford a Ukrops as the only grocery store choice. I am happy with the The Market. True, some items are expensive, but most items are reasonably priced and the meats/veggies are always fresh. It’s a big improvement from when the Community Pride on 25th was our only choice.
William has the lowdown correct.
Despite the debate, Ukrops is a premiere business model for the grocery store industry. Companies from all over the country come into Richmond to study Ukrops customer service, marketing and product development.
The Market is better now that Farm Fresh owns it, but it ain’t Ukrops.
Although I wish that Ukrops sold booze.
what is great about ukrops?
overpriced and sometimes rotten produce and no beer or wine. but it is a west end cult grocery.
William makes a good point! J’s is excellent, don’t get me wrong, but it is over priced. I ate there several weeks back with the bf and spent almost $100 including tip. I would love to frequent there but coffee is about the only thing that I can afford there on a regular basis.
A Target/Barnes & Noble would be disastrous to the community!! I’m disappointed to hear that the CH Market has deceased. I was really looking forward to that.
The Family Market on 24th and Jefferson isn’t the cleanest place in the world, but it’s close and per our request has started selling wine.
And I second Steven’s comment on just working on the housing situation and good things will follow!
Some naive soul said:
“I, for one DO NOT want a Target, or anything like that. I moved here to get away from strip-mall suburbia. If I really need to go to Target or Walmart or anything like that, I can go to Mechanicsville. I much rather have small, unique, and practical shopping here.”
It’s completely uninformed to believe that a Target or B&N automatically means “strip-mall suburbia”. There’s a fantastic B&N in the heart of Georgetown, and I’ve seen them (as well as Targets) smack dab in the middle of other thriving metropolises: San Francisco, Toronto (Chapters), New York, Chicago. If you want to live in the city, then let’s live in the city. Right now, Church Hill seems more like suburbia than the West End. They certainly have a better mix of housing and retail than we do.
Why do you think people abandon Richmond after 5pm Monday through Friday? *Because these stores aren’t available.*
This is also why we find ourselves having to drive to the West End just to shop for necessities.
Some other naive soul said:
“A Target/Barnes & Noble would be disastrous to the community!!”
How? Maybe more people would want to live here in some of these run down houses if there were actually places where people *WANTED TO SHOP* nearby.
I don’t think J’s prices are out of whack at all compared to the Hill Cafe.
If you look at J’s menu, there are many small dishes that are more than enough for most of us and they run around $6-9. The entrees are around $13-21, very similar to the Hill Cafe and the Hill is packed a lot of the week.
The wine list is also similar to the Hill, and very good. Plus, Je has an outdoor area that is empty a good deal of the time.
If you are complaining about J’s or other joints in CH, then how do you expect any other similar, or even cheaper business to thrive up here.
We’re lucky to have what we have. Quit complaining and start patronizing what we have instead of wishing for something that we don’t have.
I think some of you need to sit and reflect for a minute and think of the kinds of things a historic neighborhood can REALISTICALLY expect to see. The 1960′s grocery buildings here are a byproduct of the first wave of “Urban Renewal” and do you honestly think that kind of mistake should be made again to house a new and sparkly Ukrop’s? If you can find a businessperson willing to work with THE STRUCTURES OR LOTS THAT ARE ALREADY HERE, then great!
Hoping to see a specialty shop come around that’s only going to serve less than 1/12 of the Hill’s population is a pipe dream. It’s just not good business. I’d rather drive 10 minutes than see some poor guy lose his shirt trying to appeal to a handful of residents.
BTW, I’m sure if enough people took the time to write to Supervalu and the manager of our Main Street store then it’s likely you’d see more of the things you want to buy like organic produce and small label beers. They could be stocking the store based on an old sampling of the area’s demographic and need a shove to reevaluate things.
Really it is disgraceful there are no decent places out here. Does the city not want people to bring up the area?
The city doesn’t open small businesses, entrepeneurs do. A small business isn’t going to open in a neighborhood before it has enough potential customers to support itself. If you want to have niche businesses like the ones that have been mentioned in these comments, work to make your neighborhood appealing to those businesses and wait.
It sounds like a lot of people here are complaining that Church Hill isn’t enough like the Fan. One thing you need to keep in mind is that the Fan has been the kind of neighborhood you want (or on its way to it) for decades. You aren’t going to end up with Thai restaurants and organic produce markets overnight.
Thanks for pointing that out, Pete.
I’ve been 5 years during which time retail establishments like The Market, CVS, the Video Store on Main, StylEZ, Jumpin’ Js, Capt. Buzzy, the Drycleaner on 25th, Fergusons, Settes, Sensi, and Accapella all opened.
More will follow as the community continue to revive but it all doesn’t happen with a snap of the finger.
Church Hill is becoming the Georgetown of Richmond. My problem is I did not mind going over to Laburnum Shopping Center to go to Ukrops. I still do.
Frankly I love this place no matter what comes. It’s my home.
I’m still wondering why Animal Control is parked in Libby HIll this week? That’s another subject. What would you like to see leave the Hill? ANIMAL CONTROL!!!!
Lu Motley
I hate suburbia, it’s my preference.
But I disagree that everyone leaves the city after 5 o’clock. I do almost all of my shopping within the city, and I have to support a family of five on a tight budget. And, since I don’t get off of work until 5:30, I shop exclusively after five. Around Christmas, I travel outside the city to shop at larger chain stores.
I really want to be what you all in the neighborhood want. We have tried to price our food as best we can and I struggle everyday just like everybody else. I saw John’s great photo of what my corner looked like before I came along and it was just a shell just like so many in the area. Support is harder than being hard. I have read so many both in support and disapppoint with my business, and I guess all I can say is everyday I am taking a chance to do the right and best thing. But if you all want Jumpin J’s to go back to what it was or be something different, let us know. I am the one who took the risk on the neighborhood and basically am just trying to serve the needs the best we can. I look at what people spend at restaurants all over the City and when lunch at Arby’s is more than most pay here, it’s hard to know what to do. I would love a bookstore, a wine store, a foodie store and delivery serice from places that go all over but Church Hill. And thanks Laura Daab for pointing out we have the similiar pricing as the Hill Cafe. And if we had a full bar would that make paying what you do easier?
From April 2004:
SWIMMING POOL
How about a better neighborhood association that actually cleans the streets, plants trees in the wells, and helps prevent crime. The SBNA has done more in 1 year than it seems the Church Hill Association has ever done. That’s sad considering the districts literally touch and cross borders.
” What would you like to see leave the Hill? ANIMAL CONTROL!!!!”
That’s a great idea… just what we need more stray animals…
a small movie theater…like the Byrd, no first run movies but still current..
Any development in Church Hill should be less about convienence and more the improvement to the community. Let the burb dwellers have thier behemoth chain stores.
Je,
You are doing a fantastic job. I don’t frequent your place often enough. That space is best served with what you are doing and I wouldn’t change a thing.
What is the SBNA?
Shockoe Bottom Neighborhood Association
Shockoe Bottom Neighborhood Association I presume. I don’t know for sure because I not that familiar. Done more than the CHA? I beg to differ. The CHA is responsible for much of what is good about Church Hill in terms of the infrastructure, street scapes including tree wells, and crime prevention.
Have you ever been involved in the CHA? Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. It ain’t perfect, but it contributes greatly to the community through many dedicated neighbors who volunteer their time.
I’ve personally been involved in all the efforts that you say are lacking. I’ve not seen you on a garbage truck at 8:30 am on a Saturday cleaning the streets. I haven’t seen you involved in tree planting. Does your neighborhood have an active Block Captain program?
The last thing we need here is a turf war situation. We’re all trying to make our neighborhoods better places. Neighborhood Association bashing is just silly.
Please stop the petty bickering and appreciate the many wonderful residents who dedicate their time and energy to improving our community.
complaints about the market?
i lived here for years before they opened
when all we had were quik-checks etc. so
you had to leave the hill for decent stuff.when i want things they don’t have
i go elsewhere-no big deal.we certainly don’t need a target or b&n-neither one would get enough business to survive anyway.a small music store would be nice
but probably not practical.we can’t and shouldn’t want everything in our neighborhood. in the last 30 years since i’ve been here the changes have been dramaticly positive-count your blessings and look on the bright side folks!
Hey going back to the Ukrop’s… it’s more than a West End cult thing… I’ve grown up on Ukrop’s and it’s still my primary store. I’ve always lived in Woodville. Now, from what I heard from elders of Woodville, Ukrop’s opened briefly or planned to open on Mechanicsville Tnpk where Koslow’s (sp)/Nicks’s/Community Pride/Community Supermarket is.
AJH, how many bottles of wine did that include? That could make a big difference.
Considering the week we are having….how about establishing a private pool?
Dear Lu…. Can I ask you to share some of the drugs you are taking? Church Hill has never remotely resembled a Georgetown experience nor will it–in any of our lifetimes. Yes, it has some very charming qualities like brick sidewalks, gas lamps, some great architecture and proximity to downtown… It also has some real drawbacks..alot of shabby homes/shells, some blighted looking streets, relatively few services and cool places to go, some scary people roaming the streets, and a fair share of very poor and under-educated residents. Church Hills biggest issue to overcome is poor perception. You’ve all heard..”perception is reality”. Well, this could not be more true in Church Hill than anywhere. Most Richmonders consider Church Hill both variations of the “hood” and the “ghetto”. I don’t think many of us could deny that was the truth just 10 short years ago. Remember when most of the homes on Broad Street were boarded up and abandoned? The area looked like a war zone and in fact, it was. Outrageous levels of crime, drug use, victimization were the norm in the area. The City has not forgotten this. There are still Richmonders that are afraid to drive up here! Now let’s talk about the folks who reside in the counties… they consider Church Hill the front door to hell and would never consider coming up here for anything. Perceptions are very difficult to overcome and it takes decades to lay these negatives to rest. The Irish Festival, Italian Festival, High on the Hog are all great opportunities to showcase the Hill to the rest of the City. However, that still touches a small fraction of the folks who live in Metro Richmond. The first party that I hosted in my home, I had to hire valet attendents and escorts to get people from their car to my home. It was relayed to me that some of my guests were afraid to otherwise attend (most of my guests were coming from the counties). That says alot….but, it is the reality we face. These people are the same folks who make decisions about where to invest , take some risk, and open a business in a neighborhood. Thankfully, nobody’s car was broken into and nobody got mugged leaving the event. Every time people who are not acquainted with Church Hill hear about another robbery, mugging or murder in this area, it only reinforces the negative. When they drive through the area and see nasty houses and abandoned or unkempt properties, the negatives are reinforced.
If we want to attract business investment in this area, we have to make the area appealing for a business to see the benefit of locating here. Most businesses that I am familiar with are very image conscious. And rightfully so, a great business image (and product) will attract dollars…
A note to Je…. there were some comparisons made to the menu price of the Hill Cafe compared to Je’s…. Not really a fair comparison… The Hill Cafe has had a long, long history at that location on the Hill. And you can’t deny location, location, location. The Hill Cafe attracts a wide array of folks (lots of downtown workers) from all over the city. History and location are on the side of success. Just a few blocks up the street from MCV. The area surrounding the Cafe is somewhat charming as well. Je’s, on the other hand, is further back into the Hill–lots of non Church Hillers won’t head back there…And the area is not quite so charming–yet. Je’s is doing a fantastic job and the food is outstanding. Located closer into the traditional historic district or along main street–folks would line up for the place. That was the reason for my pricing comment in another post. If you are depending on the few Church Hill residents that can afford your menu…that won’t happen. Most of these folks can’t begin to comprehend how much money you need to generate in order to survive. However, you may need to drive footsteps by lowering the menu price and obviously changing the offering to attract more locals on a regular basis. Folks outside the area are not going to travel into that area in great numbers to keep that cash flowing. Good luck with the business, you’ve done an outstanding job. But, let’s not fool ourselves here–perceptions are tough to overcome.
Hey Jumpin Je!! Your place is marvelous!
I love the Sunday mornings and the music.
The blueberry waffles this Sunday were top notch. There’s nothing over there to be sorry about. Just don’t go away, plus don’t take half these respondents seriously. STAY as great as you are!!!
Lu Motley
what are the streetscapes (done by cha) that ms dabb refers to? now they would not be the ones on east broad street from 21st street west towards I-95, or would they? and if not where are they?
Laura Daab,
The tree wells? you mean the empty ones outside of nearly every house in Church Hill??? And I am all for community involvement, and IF I ever have the available time to attend such street cleanings I will do so and gladly introduce myself. I do feel that CHA overlooks places, ie… the corner of Jessamine and 23rd is disgusting with a bench seat and no back however is a bus stop? And you said tree wells because thats all they are, wells… no trees.
SBNA got new lamps, trees, active police duty nightly, foot patrol police in teams of 2 on the weekends, no pan handling ordinances, monthly street cleaning, cameras, and special lights directed at high crime areas.
Why do Franklin St. and Grace St. look so amazing but nowhere else does? You can’t say it’s the owners of those houses only, but I do aknowledge they play a huge role. The CHA needs to have much more police involvement in the area.
Also you can’t say CHA cleaned up crime considering this quote:
According to the Richmond Police Department site, this makes it the fourth robbery in the area in about a week. Here are the other three:
8/4/07 3:45 a.m.
2111 E. Marshall St.
A male said he was assaulted and robbed by an unknown black male.
8/3/07 1:23 a.m.
2411 E. Franklin St.
A male said he was assaulted by an unknown black male who tried to rob him.
7/30/07 2:45 p.m.
500 N. 30th St.
A male said he was robbed by two unknown black males with a gun.
I’ve updated the crime map to show robberies in yellow, to make them more apparent, though that data is always a few days behind.
Posted at 7:17AM under crime, Church Hill
At first I had William pegged as a true elitist. Now I know I rushed to judgement – his comments could be hurtful if there was evidence of enough intellectual ability to legitimize his self-important attitude.
bill c. – I know. . . SWIMMING POOL.
LOL! The Wiki states:
Elitism as a pejorative term
The term “elitism” or the title “elitist” can be used resentfully by a person who is not a member of an elite, or is a member but resents the elite position or uses it in a condescending or cynical manner in order to ridicule or criticize practices which discriminate on the basis of ability or attributes. Often, accusing someone of being an “elitist” is used as a pejorative remark meant to imply that the person in question does not in fact belong to an elite, but is merely a hanger-on. Sometimes, particularly in political circles, it is used simply as a generic insult, with little to no literal basis for the term’s use beyond a general animosity towards the target.
maryanne has a sharp, accurate blade.
william must have gotten his recreational drugs all mixed up.
“elite” a plastic car made overseas, not to be confused in any manner with the chevy corvette that has a plastic body and real metal inside
yep – that would about sum up the truth behind calling you an ‘elitist’. now that i don’t have to veil my true feelngs with disingenous compliments i am eager to call a spade a spade where your character is evident just by reading some of your remarks. i have many character flaws myself, but nothing that compares to baseless hatred or discrimination against people.
I think residents have bigger problems here in the City besides sniping over associations and who attends and who doesn’t. I would love Ukrops, Food Lion or anything in my Fairmount area resembling honest business. I don’t have the luxury of waiting for something “quaint”. I will be thrilled with anything besides boarded up crack houses and the prostitutes.
character flaws allow everyone to have their own identity. if it is necessary to have hate as a character flaw it is best to hate everyone equally. of course you would have to include yourself, and maybe that is why you would hate other people to begin with.
Ian & Bill:
The CHA has worked with the Planter Society up here for years to plant trees in tree wells. After hurricane Isabelle, Marion Macdonald and many volunteers canvassed the neighborhood with the city and located tree wells that needed replanting. Many trees were replaced because of this.
This fall the CHA is going to be planting many more trees in the area with the help from the city. This takes time, money are human resources.
Church Hill is a much larger area than Shockoe Bottom and the SBNA also has the business community down there influencing and contributing to your effort. Church Hill doesn’t have that resource.
You got all of that stuff because you’re in a commercial corridor community – not because your association is so awesome. Stop patting yourself on the back! The city just got tired of having to deal with all the stabbings and shootings that go on down there and the business community and the powers that be made the city clean up the area.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
As for a bench on Jessamine and wherever, that’s Union Hill and they have their own association call the Union hill Civic Association. Maybe you want to have a go at them while you’re at it, or maybe the New Vision Civic League that’s up here as well?
By the way, by the looks of the Crime Map, Shockoe Bottom has had it’s share of crime lately. Let’s see, assualt, a B&E and two incidents of destruction of property by some drunken yahoos. Keep up the good work Ian!
Ian, the bench at 23rd was destroyed by skateboarders a few years ago. Many people on 23rd have asked the City to replace or remove it. Please file a complaint with the city whether online or otherwise. Many people already have complained to the city, the city hasnt listened yet. I dont think the association can afford expensive stuff like benches up there yet.
Trying to compare a business area like Shockoe Bottom to a neighborhood like Church Hill (or Union Hill) doesn’t make sense on just about any level.
ms dabb, it was a question! what are the streetscapes that cha is responsible for? i just don’t see how you equate that with patting your self on the back. it was just a question and as i understand it, you have the superior mind and i trust you would know the answer. most all of the virginia savages that i know here in are eternally grateful to your leadership in saving church hill and making it a historic neighborhood
As president of he Church Hill Association, feel I must respond to some of the comments here. The CHA is an association of close to 300 members that has been serving the community for many years. It’s not a pefect organization, but few are. The Members of the CHA have voted to fund the planting of trees in the neighorhood. They give money to schools and civic organizations. The folks at the CHA volunteer to accompany garbage trucks on Saturday mornigs to clean up the alleys and streets. According to our local police officers, crime is down; the highest rate of reduction in the city.
I get tired of people taking potshots at the hard work of other. Most people I know who talk badly about the CHA either don’t participate, or are angry because some vote didn’t go their way.
Ther are many times I strongly disagree with the vote taken by our membership. But that’s the way the system works.
The Shockoe Bottom Neighborhod Association, I am sure, has done some very good things. They should be proud of what they have accomplished. It is, however, a very different area. It is a highly commercial entertainment district that was in danger of going down the proverbial tubes because of public reactions to some very high profile crimes. The city moved in to help. As I understand some of that “help” (parking restrictions) has put a terrible burden on some of the local businesses.
The CHA is a good organization, made up of good hard-working people, doing good things. If you disagree with what we do, come to a meeting, join up, and voice your disagreement. I do it ALL the time. Then we take of vote, and proceed as the majority rules. If you’re not willing to do that, your comments here are just the empty ramblings of a malcontent.
Jim Daab
Don’t all you guys have to work? All this personal sniping really takes away from the discussion.
All of this petty bickering is counterproductive to this discussion and the greater neighborhood in general. If you don’t like something, get involved and work for change! Community associations are made of volunteers who are trying to do just that.
Back to the original topic, here are some things we’d like to see:
- better neighborhood schools
- quality daycare options
- a community pool!
- improvements to Chimborazo Park (b-ball courts and playground area)
- library expansion/renovation
Jim and Laura and anyone else,
I apologize for coming off as if I were personally attacking anyone with my comments about the CHA. I was under the false impression that I was considered a Church Hill resident. Laura has corrected me that I am a Union Hill resident. I guess I was misled by the Church Hill Association Maps that are dispersed in the area.
For that matter Douglas Wilder was not a resident of Church Hill, he was a resident of Union Hill. And to all the people saying they would like to see the Sunny Market converted, and more places to eat etc… All the places you are mentioning are in Union Hill.
I am a business owner in Shockoe Bottom, and a property owner in Manchester, and multiple properties including my house in Union Hill. Just like you I want to see thea area (Church, Union, Fulton, etc…) to thrive. I think that the people of the community make all the difference on this matter, but it bothers me that the boundaries of Church Hill include other neighborhoods, but then people seem so quick to pass the problems to the next association.
Jim, I am assuming you have my email address. I would love to arrange a time to meet with you, possibly at Captain Buzz’s?, to meet and talk about community involvement both in my neighborhood and yours. I would love to attend the monthly meetings but work Tuesday-Saturday from 9am-11pm. I promise you I am in no way interested in bringing your association down, but I would appreciate the time to discuss the boundaries, future plans, and ask some questions that you might have better answers to.
Ian,
I don’t have your email, but I aould to talk. Call me.
Jim
I wanted to respond to Pete’s comments about new business in the neighborhood. My name is Michelle Logan. I opened Richmond Balance July 1st, a new gym on Main Street. As a Richmond native, I am very excited to be here and to support the development efforts in the area. We do believe that there are enough people in the area that support local businesses for us to find success. I encourage you all to stop by the gym and give us advice on how to meet the neighborhood’s needs.
My husband and I moved to Church Hill from Chicago’s Edgewater neighborhood, about a year ago. I lived in Edgewater for about 8 years, and, when I moved there, it shared many of the same image problems as CH. People told me that I couldn’t walk by myself, blah blah. Now, that neighborhood is struggling to be upscale while keep its traditional immigrant identity (you could walk down one block and here, at least, five languages).
What started changing Edgewater and other Chicago “hoods” is community involvement and the introduction of retail and services that promote walking and mass transit rather than driving…or hid the driving underneath the stores in a tighter footprint. Target, Whole Foods, and other big chain stores are showing up in Chicago as small vertical stores that blend with the local neighborhoods rather than scream “strip mall.” I love that Richmond proper is all about the locals, and I don’t go to the chains if I can help it.
But, let’s be realistic, a great many people cannot afford to shop at Ellwood Thompson’s or Careytown fashion boutiques. I cringe to say this but rehabbing old buildings and lots in downtown and other neighborhoods, with a “local-flavor” Barnes and Noble or Target would do a lot to keep people in the city. (and hinder air pollution and the behemoth concrete jungle that is Short Pump)
We live on the 600th block of North 31st. I’d love a coffee shop and a restaurant/bar within stumbling distance. A movie theatre like The Byrd would be most awesome. A dry cleaner who doesn’t use perc (I have to go to the Far West End). A wine/beer shop would be great, but The Market does have a good selection of Virginia wines and has my favorite Coppola.
William said a few posts back that ten years ago the area was blighted. Ten years ago the neighborhood was basically the same as it is now. I was born in church hill- and by that I mean when I was born my parents lived there. 30 Years ago it was totally wild and out of control 30 years ago, we had anarchy, nip joints, rooms by the hour, constant robbery cars broken into nightly, my butt kicked on the regular and nearly drowned in the Chimborazo pool a few times. The idea that you would need a “valet” for your party is pretty funny to me as the neghborhood seems like Windsor Farms compared to what I grew up in.
I lived in the East Village in NY and I preferred it when it was percieved to be scary. I think Church Hill residents should prefer that perception as well because the kind of people who are scared of Urban areas are boring homogenous sheep who would totally wipe out the character of an interesting urban neighborhood and drive out the people who give those areas flavor. The poor and lower to middle class are innovators due to finacial constraints. The upper middle class and the rich just buy what is the most shiny. Once Giuliani cleaned up the East Village it became totally safe and totally overpriced and now it devoid of anything but a pale semblance of the character it once had. Do we want that to happen to Church Hill? I think it has a nice balance due to it’s perception and as long as it’s viewed as slightly undesirebale that will persist. Georgetown sucks. It’s for suckers. Much of urban Richmond is fascinating precisely because it is underdeveloped, underdiscovered and used by people who appreciate having to dig a little for fun. Enjoy what you have and the slight inconveniences that accompanies it because if the pendulum swings too far the other way we would have Georgetown and that would be a crying shame.
JC’s Wish List for the neighborhood
Pinball Arcade / Bar
East End Theatre Rehab (2nd run art house cinema and local film maker workshop that serves pizza and beer)
Bookstore run by Ward Teft
Montessori School (New to the list )
More Community Gardens
Artisan Bakery
Gift shop (similar to Mongrel on Cary St)
Vintage store
Tool Share program (how many variable speed routers does a neighborhood really need?)
Gas lights expanded north of Broad
Repave Marshall and Clay streets
Sidewalks on all blocks
Community pool for year round swimming
Bicycle parking at all local business , schools, and government buildings
More covered bus shelters
Maps of the bus routes actually posted on the backs of the bus stop signs
A well maintained sports playing field
Better use of Chimborazo Park especially the area at the bottom of the hill.
Some of the vacant cinderblock bunkers converted to studio / workshop space
More aggressive program to deal with vacant and blighted buildings
There’s a corner store nearby that will carry items if you ask for them…maybe one way to get the goods we want in our neighborhoods is to make it worth existing merchants’ while to stock them. Some of us have talked about it before, but we haven’t made a concerted effort to request a lot of items.
Hmmmm, how about:
- another Westhampton/indie movie theater? I can think of two excellent buildings for that one.
- another Plan 9?
- a doctor’s office?
- a bookstore?
- a bike shop?
- a charter school?
- a plumber/construction business/electrician or any other nearby business that would be convenient for revitalization efforts in the neighborhood?
- or just about anything that will generate street activity during most hours of the day and maintain “eyes on the street.”
There are plenty of places along the 25th St. corridor just begging for attention. I hope the City’s Enterprise Zone program and mixed use designation spur at least some revitalization in that area.
My boyfriend and I also really want a Chanello’s pizza in the neighborhood (seriously). There’s a great building on Jefferson Ave. that would be perfect for it.
Of course, the parking requirements will pretty much destroy the chances for some of those, but one can still hope.
Someone said they wanted a wine store – Church Hill Herbs (corner 25th and Marshall) apparently now has a wine off premises license. It involves being able to put a bottle of wine in a gift basket, BUT the neighbors can also pop in and buy a bottle of gourmet wine. I have not personally looked at the wine list yet, but have talked to the owner and she said she’s got what she thinks is a good selection – we should try to frequent local businesses like Church Hill Herbs, she’s got lots of stuff other than herbs, and being able to run in for a bottle of wine sounds good to me.