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	<title>Comments on: development proposal for 1903 East Marshall</title>
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	<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:02:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bill Hartsock</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-31519</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Hartsock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-31519</guid>
		<description>Has anyone heard what happened to this project? We figured that once the zoning was approved that the developer would just sit on it and resell when the economy improved. That may take awhile!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone heard what happened to this project? We figured that once the zoning was approved that the developer would just sit on it and resell when the economy improved. That may take awhile!</p>
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		<title>By: New Condos? Not in Church Hill&#8217;s backyard &#171; Urban Richmond~</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-10913</link>
		<dc:creator>New Condos? Not in Church Hill&#8217;s backyard &#171; Urban Richmond~</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-10913</guid>
		<description>[...] Some vocal church hill residents have opposed Echo Harbor on the riverfront, a development below Jefferson Park on Marshall St., and challenged the density of the St. Patrick&#8217;s School condo [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Some vocal church hill residents have opposed Echo Harbor on the riverfront, a development below Jefferson Park on Marshall St., and challenged the density of the St. Patrick&#8217;s School condo [...]</p>
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		<title>By: frank</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4715</link>
		<dc:creator>frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 01:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4715</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Zoning controls height not CAR, you lose, the developer wins &amp; makes extra millions on your view. call your council person tell her you want a height restriction. Council woman Delores McQuinn  222-1574</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Zoning controls height not CAR, you lose, the developer wins &amp; makes extra millions on your view. call your council person tell her you want a height restriction. Council woman Delores McQuinn  222-1574</p>
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		<title>By: john_m</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4703</link>
		<dc:creator>john_m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 21:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4703</guid>
		<description>A slightly edited-for-context email sent out after the last Friends of Jefferson Park meeting:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Well, the short answer is NO, we were not successful in getting the Planning Commission to recommend a proffer regarding the building height be added to the rezoning of 1903. E. Marshall St.

Two new surveys show that a 50ft tall building could be 10 feet lower than the top edge of Jefferson Park.  But that all depends on how the height of the building is measured and that height can vary based on the design of the roof.  

Yes, a roof line (or part of a roof) could rise higher than the park if the Commission of Architectural Review/CAR doesn&#039;t intercede.  The CAR will see plans for whatever is built at 1903 E. Marshall since it lies within the Shockoe Bottom/Valley Old and Historic District.

The rezoning of 1903 E. Marshall comes before City Council on the Regular Agenda this coming Monday 7-9-07.  See agenda attached.  It&#039;s item #19.  Any citizen may comment on the proposed re-zoning to B6.  Likewise, any citizen can request for a proffer for stronger wording on the height (B6 allows a 50ft tall structure.)

At yesterday&#039;s Planning Commission meeting, the property owner spoke and showed the same model he showed [Friends of Jefferson Park] last week.  They also introduced a new survey that looks in line with &lt;a href=&#039;http://chpn.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/1903-e-marshall-survey1.pdf&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this survey of the area (PDF)&lt;/a&gt;.  If CAR is conscientious (and we, as a community, stay on top of this project) a responsible developer could very easily create a structure that doesn&#039;t rise above the top of the park.  Or, an irresponsible developer could create a structure which rises above the top edge of the park and creates a barrier to our views of Shockoe Bottom, Manchester and the tree line of the James River/Canal.

The Planning Commission voted in favor of the re-zoning and seemed content with CAR oversight and the zoning ordinance&#039;s height limit at 50ft.  However, no one in the room (neither staff nor the commissioners, knew if CAR could make a ruling based on height alone.)

There was much discussion among commissioners of how the building&#039;s roof would look from the park (air conditioning units on the roof, antennas, etc.)  This, too, would presumably fall under the purview of CAR.

There is still one more venue to get voices heard on this: CITY COUNCIL MTG, 7-9-07.  
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A slightly edited-for-context email sent out after the last Friends of Jefferson Park meeting:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Well, the short answer is NO, we were not successful in getting the Planning Commission to recommend a proffer regarding the building height be added to the rezoning of 1903. E. Marshall St.</p>
<p>Two new surveys show that a 50ft tall building could be 10 feet lower than the top edge of Jefferson Park.  But that all depends on how the height of the building is measured and that height can vary based on the design of the roof.  </p>
<p>Yes, a roof line (or part of a roof) could rise higher than the park if the Commission of Architectural Review/CAR doesn&#8217;t intercede.  The CAR will see plans for whatever is built at 1903 E. Marshall since it lies within the Shockoe Bottom/Valley Old and Historic District.</p>
<p>The rezoning of 1903 E. Marshall comes before City Council on the Regular Agenda this coming Monday 7-9-07.  See agenda attached.  It&#8217;s item #19.  Any citizen may comment on the proposed re-zoning to B6.  Likewise, any citizen can request for a proffer for stronger wording on the height (B6 allows a 50ft tall structure.)</p>
<p>At yesterday&#8217;s Planning Commission meeting, the property owner spoke and showed the same model he showed [Friends of Jefferson Park] last week.  They also introduced a new survey that looks in line with <a href='http://chpn.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/1903-e-marshall-survey1.pdf' rel="nofollow">this survey of the area (PDF)</a>.  If CAR is conscientious (and we, as a community, stay on top of this project) a responsible developer could very easily create a structure that doesn&#8217;t rise above the top of the park.  Or, an irresponsible developer could create a structure which rises above the top edge of the park and creates a barrier to our views of Shockoe Bottom, Manchester and the tree line of the James River/Canal.</p>
<p>The Planning Commission voted in favor of the re-zoning and seemed content with CAR oversight and the zoning ordinance&#8217;s height limit at 50ft.  However, no one in the room (neither staff nor the commissioners, knew if CAR could make a ruling based on height alone.)</p>
<p>There was much discussion among commissioners of how the building&#8217;s roof would look from the park (air conditioning units on the roof, antennas, etc.)  This, too, would presumably fall under the purview of CAR.</p>
<p>There is still one more venue to get voices heard on this: CITY COUNCIL MTG, 7-9-07.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: archie bunker</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4606</link>
		<dc:creator>archie bunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4606</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t argue with the categorizaion of the council, but on this topic, I have no problem with them engaging in &#039;solicitation&#039; of developers, because it is an area that sorely needs to be developed.

Of course, I stil demand (but do not expect) that our council members keep the best interests of the city and their consituents in mind and that they do not profit personally through inappropriate &#039;campaign contributions&#039; and such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t argue with the categorizaion of the council, but on this topic, I have no problem with them engaging in &#8216;solicitation&#8217; of developers, because it is an area that sorely needs to be developed.</p>
<p>Of course, I stil demand (but do not expect) that our council members keep the best interests of the city and their consituents in mind and that they do not profit personally through inappropriate &#8216;campaign contributions&#8217; and such.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4590</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4590</guid>
		<description>yes the site was once an elementary school. jefferson school and the principal was known as &quot;the rabbi&quot; due to the jewish community. the school closed in 1929 and sent the students to bellevue.

the master plan for shockoe bottom was done 1997-2001 and the only result has been the city adoption of the b-6 zoning classification. that b-6 classification has zero impact on the recommendations in the shockoe bottom master plan.

the answers to any questions are obvious for the vacant lots in the bottom. the council and city staff continue to fall over for developers like 2 dollar whores (cause they are 2 dollar whores)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes the site was once an elementary school. jefferson school and the principal was known as &#8220;the rabbi&#8221; due to the jewish community. the school closed in 1929 and sent the students to bellevue.</p>
<p>the master plan for shockoe bottom was done 1997-2001 and the only result has been the city adoption of the b-6 zoning classification. that b-6 classification has zero impact on the recommendations in the shockoe bottom master plan.</p>
<p>the answers to any questions are obvious for the vacant lots in the bottom. the council and city staff continue to fall over for developers like 2 dollar whores (cause they are 2 dollar whores)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Stokes</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4578</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Stokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4578</guid>
		<description>Am I right in remembering that this lot was once an elementary school (not from my  school days, but from a picture I once saw)? The bad news for our friends who live in the county and work at MCV or the state is that their days of free parking on these surface streets may be over. These developments, while mostly supportable seem to cry out for some master plan for the Bottom. I guess the city wants another big lot returned to the tax rolls for obvious reasons, but the questions about traffic and surface street improvements (and park slope improvements) seems unanswered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I right in remembering that this lot was once an elementary school (not from my  school days, but from a picture I once saw)? The bad news for our friends who live in the county and work at MCV or the state is that their days of free parking on these surface streets may be over. These developments, while mostly supportable seem to cry out for some master plan for the Bottom. I guess the city wants another big lot returned to the tax rolls for obvious reasons, but the questions about traffic and surface street improvements (and park slope improvements) seems unanswered.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4569</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4569</guid>
		<description>brad, what kind of development do you want on the parking lot site around mcd&#039;s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brad, what kind of development do you want on the parking lot site around mcd&#8217;s</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4559</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4559</guid>
		<description>I say go for it!! The more development the better!! The more people there are with disposable income living in Church Hill and the Bottom the more restaurants and services our neighborhoods will support. Build, build, build!!! (but of course in a style that supports and honors the historic character of our community). I just hope no one shows the developer or future condo buyers photos of the landslide that buried cars and filled Marshall Street and the 1903 property with mud during Gaston.  And when is someone going to develop that huge waste of land that is the parking lot behind McDonalds??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say go for it!! The more development the better!! The more people there are with disposable income living in Church Hill and the Bottom the more restaurants and services our neighborhoods will support. Build, build, build!!! (but of course in a style that supports and honors the historic character of our community). I just hope no one shows the developer or future condo buyers photos of the landslide that buried cars and filled Marshall Street and the 1903 property with mud during Gaston.  And when is someone going to develop that huge waste of land that is the parking lot behind McDonalds??</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4320</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4320</guid>
		<description>i am confused by the term development proposal. the proposal is for rezoning and there is nothing to bind approval of the building sketch as a condition of rezoning.

what seems significant to me is that typically in this neighborhood the zoning goes from m1 to b5 to accommodate development. this one is different going from m1 to b6.

the shockoe bottom study and plan recommended a comprehensive planning strategy to protect existing and historic features so that new development (especially on the vacant lots) would fit into context of the neighborhood.

mcquinn submitted a paper at council for the city to study a &quot;design overlay&quot; (not a city historic district) as a strategy to meet some of the needs documented in the shockoe bottom study. That study was never done. city planning staff said the community objected but there is no record of any public meeting about the overlay district.

somehow now the city staff has created a new zoning classification the b6 and has twisted the arm of the owner at 1903 e marshall to ask for zoning from m1 to b6, not b5 which is typical.

the 1903 east marshall owner should be entitled to rezoning, just like everyone else in similar circumstances.

in fact the rezoning needs to be comprehensive so that all of the m1 goes to b or ro uses like the adopted shockoe bottom master plan says.

mcquinn needs to say why she let the design overlay study in shockoe bottom die at the hands of the city planning gestapo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am confused by the term development proposal. the proposal is for rezoning and there is nothing to bind approval of the building sketch as a condition of rezoning.</p>
<p>what seems significant to me is that typically in this neighborhood the zoning goes from m1 to b5 to accommodate development. this one is different going from m1 to b6.</p>
<p>the shockoe bottom study and plan recommended a comprehensive planning strategy to protect existing and historic features so that new development (especially on the vacant lots) would fit into context of the neighborhood.</p>
<p>mcquinn submitted a paper at council for the city to study a &#8220;design overlay&#8221; (not a city historic district) as a strategy to meet some of the needs documented in the shockoe bottom study. That study was never done. city planning staff said the community objected but there is no record of any public meeting about the overlay district.</p>
<p>somehow now the city staff has created a new zoning classification the b6 and has twisted the arm of the owner at 1903 e marshall to ask for zoning from m1 to b6, not b5 which is typical.</p>
<p>the 1903 east marshall owner should be entitled to rezoning, just like everyone else in similar circumstances.</p>
<p>in fact the rezoning needs to be comprehensive so that all of the m1 goes to b or ro uses like the adopted shockoe bottom master plan says.</p>
<p>mcquinn needs to say why she let the design overlay study in shockoe bottom die at the hands of the city planning gestapo.</p>
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		<title>By: maryanne</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4298</link>
		<dc:creator>maryanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4298</guid>
		<description>true! true! sorry for being ugly - i guess i have just come across too many church hill residents that blame renters and lower-income groups for neighborhood problems (crime, vandalism, blight, etc.)  the people to blame are the absentee landlords, real-estate &#039;investors&#039; (that renovate and flip homes to make a quick profit), and complacent residents who are good at complaining but bad at contributing to the well-being of all church hill residents).  the &#039;flippers&#039;, absentee landlords are the ones we should be holding accountable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>true! true! sorry for being ugly &#8211; i guess i have just come across too many church hill residents that blame renters and lower-income groups for neighborhood problems (crime, vandalism, blight, etc.)  the people to blame are the absentee landlords, real-estate &#8216;investors&#8217; (that renovate and flip homes to make a quick profit), and complacent residents who are good at complaining but bad at contributing to the well-being of all church hill residents).  the &#8216;flippers&#8217;, absentee landlords are the ones we should be holding accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: phriendlyjaime</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4274</link>
		<dc:creator>phriendlyjaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4274</guid>
		<description>sorry, jaime and phriendlyjaime are the same person.  I decided to go ahead and use my blogger name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, jaime and phriendlyjaime are the same person.  I decided to go ahead and use my blogger name.</p>
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		<title>By: phriendlyjaime</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4273</link>
		<dc:creator>phriendlyjaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4273</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s certainly not what I meant, maryanne.  However, a large influx of brand new residents as opposed to 2 or 3 people moving onto a street is different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s certainly not what I meant, maryanne.  However, a large influx of brand new residents as opposed to 2 or 3 people moving onto a street is different.</p>
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		<title>By: maryanne</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4261</link>
		<dc:creator>maryanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4261</guid>
		<description>jamie, 
why would anyone renting the apartments  be less likely to &#039;get it&#039; than anyone else living in church hill?    i usually read comments posted here at chpn that offer more than ample proof that many church hill homeowners don&#039;t &#039;get it&#039; either.  hopefully you will not equate neighborhood problems with the apartment residents.  that would just be too silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jamie,<br />
why would anyone renting the apartments  be less likely to &#8216;get it&#8217; than anyone else living in church hill?    i usually read comments posted here at chpn that offer more than ample proof that many church hill homeowners don&#8217;t &#8216;get it&#8217; either.  hopefully you will not equate neighborhood problems with the apartment residents.  that would just be too silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall_870/comment-page-1/#comment-4244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chpn.net/news/2007/06/20/development-proposal-for-1903-east-marshall/#comment-4244</guid>
		<description>Thanks John!  We have met before, at the Richmond blog con fab.  Great to be here in the Hill.

I disagree that they should just go for it.  Why can&#039;t we have something else built that is pretty, and that contributes to the community and the economy?  Furthermore, what kind of housing will this be?  The building diagram, as crude as it is, certainly doesn&#039;t make me think that it will be any better looking than a gravel filled abandoned lot.  I also don&#039;t enjoy that a public park is going to become a backyard to a building.  I have lived her for less than a month, but I am already impressed at the seemingly common sense manners and bahvior many park goers exhibit, and I worry that a new building, full of apartment dwellers new to the area, might not &quot;get it&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks John!  We have met before, at the Richmond blog con fab.  Great to be here in the Hill.</p>
<p>I disagree that they should just go for it.  Why can&#8217;t we have something else built that is pretty, and that contributes to the community and the economy?  Furthermore, what kind of housing will this be?  The building diagram, as crude as it is, certainly doesn&#8217;t make me think that it will be any better looking than a gravel filled abandoned lot.  I also don&#8217;t enjoy that a public park is going to become a backyard to a building.  I have lived her for less than a month, but I am already impressed at the seemingly common sense manners and bahvior many park goers exhibit, and I worry that a new building, full of apartment dwellers new to the area, might not &#8220;get it&#8221;.</p>
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