September 19, 2006
last night’s 7th dist. round table meeting
Here are notes from the first half of the meeting last night, please add more if you have anything.
A presentation was made by Joe Slay of Slay Public Relations. Echo Harbor’s proposed location is at 3011 and 3021 Dock Street and will be 2 18-story buildings to house 260 condo units, a health club(open for membership to the public), and 5-star restauraunt.
The Echo Harbor project is requesting a special use permit for the land they own, currently zoned “M-2″ for heavy industrial use. They want to change the zoning to RF-2, which is riverfront mixed-residential use. The project principals are:. USP Development, LLC (didn’t catch the guy’s name); Baskervill (Bob Tierney); KEnbridge Construction/R3Development (George Ross); Shockoe Properties(Mark Merhidge, who will manage the proposed properties); and Slay Public Relations/Martin Agency.
The key points the Echo Harbor Group made regarding the project were:
- no contribution requested from the city
- a direct $215 mill investment in the city in a part of town that is currently not developed
- $3mill estimated net in tax revenue for the city projected, based on study done by private consulting firm - they said they will make this study public via the mayor’s office)
- the site that will be developed is designated as a “Brownfield”
- the development will make the river more accessible - boat slips, river access from the N, E and W - currently only accessible from the South.
- will donate land to the city and will extend the canal walk from 17th street to the proposed development site.
- site will include portion of the Capital Bike Trail that will connect RVA to Williamsburg
Concerns were expressed by by residents (of which our diligent note-taker was only able to get a partial account):
- Martha Kent - requested access to feasibilty studies
- gentleman who lives on libby hill terrace - expressed concern about height of proposed builidings, blocking view of river
- female resident asked if jobs will be created for local residents
- Eugenia Ellis - expressed concern over developing totally untouched part of the riverfront and environmental impact of doing so
DISCUSS: This proposed development might not be the best possible thing for city residents, but could be the lesser evil considering the fact that the site is zoned for industrial development that could sit right on the river bank instead of 300 feet back; could be a great deal taller than the proposed 18 story buildings; will be developed in environmentally ’sensitive’ way using some environmental-impact consulting firm.
Thanks to Mary Anne for playing intrepid reporter!
I favor development of this land, I don’t favor the height or the design seen so far.
I agree with Cadeho about the need for development on this site as well as his/her concerns about the height issue.
18 stories is DAMN high and would be totally out of place for the Shockoe Bottom/Church Hill area. The developers pointed out that the proposed 18 story height is far less than other buildings they cited in Richmond but what they did not mention is that all of these taller buildings are DOWNTOWN in the BUSINESS DISTRICT, WEST of I-95. What we have in the bottom EAST of I-95 is a historically distinctive commercial and residential area whose riverfront is lined with old tobacco wharehouses, none higher than 5 stories.
Additionally,I am afraid that 2 18 story buildings would LOOM over Church Hill and Libby Terrace, much as the James Madison office building monstrosity looms over the RVA overlook. Is that what we really want for our neighborhood?
Echo also spoke of providing and maintaining new landscaping for Libby Hill Park and the Great Ship Locks Park as well as extending the Capitol trail and the Canal Walk. If I’m correct, the current zoning allows for 300ft height. They’re planning on 206. I don’t know about you but I’d rather see Condos that cater to the neighborhood than an industrial building.
Thanks, Heather - i missed a great number of crucial points that were made by those representing Echo Harbor and 7th district residents. therefore, those of you who can add what wasn’t covered, please add to the report! thanks!
Where does this plan fit into the Mayor’s planned affordable housing trust fund idea? Instead of the noted amenities being offered by the developer (which if done, will primarily be amenities for residents of the towers…which, I am sure will be reinforced in design and security elements), the Mayor should tie a zoning change in with a substantial affordable trust fund donation. Unless riverfront development is linked with deconcentrating poverty on the north side of the East End, this development will have accomplished little in the way of public policy. Plus, as has been the case with other cities, holding developers to their ancillary infrastructure and public amemity promises is a difficult and expensive legal proposition. A writ large analog to getting a contractor back to fix something at your house. (Sorry, dear contractor friends!)
Heather -
It would be a gross understatement to say my knowledge of zoning is limited, but, in order for the Echo group to change zoning use from industrial to RV2 (or whatever designation their guy said), don’t they have to go through a rigorous process that includes community input and approval? In other words, it’s just not an automatic, easy thing to do, right?
And, don’t you think their landscaping and canal walk incentives were made because they knew the 18 story building height they proposed for their 2 structures would hugely controversial? Heck, I remember a few years ago when Jerry Cable of the Tobacco Company proposed a single 10 story condo building for this same site and the opposition to it from the neighborhood was deafening!
Let me also add that I seriously doubt any company will build a 300 foot industrial facility on the site; its just not in the cards for reasons too numerous to mention. This was nothing but a red herring that the Echo folks threw out to scare people.
There is no way affordable housing can garner the property tax and other things that come with this type of development. I know what type of debate this is going to start so let it. Although I don’t live where the view will be impacted I do frequent the area. I would much rather see this development than some type of factory (like in southside). The city is on a roll with redevelopment and renovations.
On affordable housing: Let’s not spoil that with a bunch of affordable housing talk. There is a lot of room in Henrico and Chesterfield (that is on the bus line) for affordable housing. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rich but I’m well above affordable housing.
I have seen what happens when people who are “given” affordable housing. Since they didn’t earn it, it means nothing. It’ll end up back int he rental market.
People, the surrounding counties have said for years they are better than we are. Here is a chance to do something about it. Stop this talk of affordable housing and let them move to the counties.
Let the fur fly!
Consider this:
While UPS LLC might have some well-heeled principals that are known now, that could change at any time.
Present day manufacturing based on regulations from beyond the city is less of a threat than dense residential development. The red herring comment is on target.
The 3 million real estate tax might be right but the city services required to support residential development will cost more than the real estate tax benefit. See if you can find any study that says dense residential development brings a long-term benefit to a city. You are more likely to find that manufacturing and commercial gives a positive benefit with residential a negative.
This is essentially a rezoning from manufacturing to residential. The real value of the land will be driven down.
More river access is laughable. This is a gated community.
As someone mentioned, the site looks today. It sure does! Take a walk by the river or go by in a boat or canoe. It is really a quiet green place. Maybe its best use is an extension of the river front park from the lock on the west down to the silos and the city owned intermediate terminal.
How much is the developer willing to pay for the views taken? Will it really be worth it?
If residential space is in demand it would seem smarter to fix up the excess of old houses than to build gated development that limits access and view of the river and removes green space.
Very Concerned - no, you can’t just walk in and change zoning. An application would need to be filled out, certain criteria met (I don’t know the particulars), and a vote will be taken by the neighborhood (I don’t know whether it would make or break a deal).
The developers tried to say all the right things about public access, but I think the height and width of what they propose is ABSOLUTELY the wrong scale for the historic neighborhood. I suggest we should all personally go look at the documents filed with the city– the developers can say anything outloud at a community meeting and it’s not binding or necessarily the whole story. They can also leave out bits of the project that they’d rather not discuss. We need to see the whole picture, without the PR firm assisting.
Rule number 1 on trying to get a development built: Ask for more than what you think you’ll get. You can always scale back. And then it will make it seem like a good compromise.
I enjoy the view from Libby Hill Park as much as any other, execpt for the 2 huge white silos adjacent to the Fulton Gas Works. Where was the opposition to those ugly things? It seems to me that when something decent is proposed in this city, ignorance and the chance for people to complain prevail. BUILD THE CONDO’S! Something will occupy this land, especailly with the Rockett’s Landing developement underway, better it be something nice.
Dave: I agree. As the site is now zoned, they could build a 300 ft high office building or manufacturing plant and sit on it until the money’s right to sell. They’re not asking the city for money and they’re offering to fix up some surrounding area that has been neglected. The City of Richmond DESPERATELY needs money. Especially for all of our flooding, road and school issues. This looks like a great development. All the city wants to know from us is if we’d like it to remain zoned M2 or RF2. Let the City Planners and developers deal with the technicalities.
No one is actually going to put a 300-foot-tall industrial plant there. It is just a scare tactic. People don’t put big industrial sites in cities anymore unless there is a major port. It’s much cheaper to put them in southwest Virginia (or Mexico) where land and labor is easy to come by and there is better transportation access. A developer would only make money on the property if it were upscale residential/office/retail space. Manufacturing sites get no benefit from a water view. Plus the cost of cleaning up the land and dealing with flooding just makes it that much more expensive. That’s why the land has sit vacant for so long.
I am a Church Hill resident and I fully support the Echo Harbour development to proceed as proposed. This is a wonderful opportunity for the city to attract upscale folks who will contribute positively to the tax base and the community as a whole. The view of the river will still be present from Libby Hill… I’m frankly very tired of the traditionalist whack jobs in Church Hill that cry “not in my backyard” for any new proposed development. This project will have no negative impact on the Hill what-so-ever.
I’m interested…did the developers have a list of community supporters?